Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

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csnailnrun
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Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by csnailnrun » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:38 pm

I've read many articles and posts on varying preferred methods of balancing the wheels all to get a smooth ride.

What I have not read is how anyone has determined the ounces to add in either dyna-beads or the stick on weights. The loose bearing method is great, but how do you go about calculating how much weight to add? Same for the beads. I've seen several ranging ounces used. Adding equal beads to each tire doesn't sound very calculated. Maybe I'm wrong in my understanding in the process.

I'd like to hear the calculations methods of those how have employed these balancing methods. Thanks!


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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by mtntee20 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:48 pm

Ryan,

You do not need to calculate the weight of the beads too accurately. The beads self balance completely around the inside of the inner tube. So, where you need more weight, there will be more beads. Where you don't need weight, the beads are just a thin layer fading into and out of the light areas needing the extra weight.

With stick-on weights, you need to be as accurate as you can reasonably be due to the fact, you can put the tire out of balance in a different spot than it was originally.

Good Luck,
Terry


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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Jeff Hood » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:48 pm

Loose bearing method with stick-on weights, use tape to put weights on felloe at the top, opposite the heavy spot. Keep adding weights until the wheel stays put no matter where you stop it. Sometimes you may need to move the weight a little one way or the other, but you should never need to put weight in two different spots. Once it balances, remove the taped weights and stick them on permanently. A little paint or black tape over them and they are hardly noticeable.

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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:55 pm

This video is directly applicable to adding weights using the loose bearing method. Shows where to add and how to adjust the weight. It is for a front motorcycle wheel - but that doesn't matter since its the procedure that is applicable. You'll need to wait for a 5sec ad to play first
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2AuivYzaBs


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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Alan Long » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:24 am

I agree with Jeff Hood as that is the procedure for a “Static Balance” which should survive. More modern versions
go the next step into “Dynamic Balancing” which is done with a spinning wheel usually on a Wheel Balancing Machine.
Personally, I have never balanced any of my 12 Road wheels. Alan


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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Allan » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:28 am

In 55 years of T driving and restoring of a dozen or so cars, I too have never balanced a wheel. Then again, I rarely drive over 40 mph and have never driven on today's junk tyres, so the need has not arisen.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Dan Hatch » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:35 am

Guys if you put the right amount of TUBE type sealant in a tire it will balance the tire PLUS stop a flat.
Kills two birds with one stone.


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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by csnailnrun » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:08 am

https://www.amazon.com/DIYK-4-Counterac ... 189&sr=8-7


One previous post someone mentioned CounterAct & Dyna-Bead were similar in manufacture? Would the link above be the correct kit? 4oz per tire will be sufficient?

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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by aDave » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:27 am

short answer:
(from the 'net)
Recommendation. Disclaimer: To achieve maximum results it is important to use the proper package size for each tire. As a rule of thumb, the amount of Counteract required per tire is based on one ounce per thirteen pounds of tire.

Longer answer...more detailed:

http://www.innovativebalancing.com/chart.htm


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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:51 am

You will need as a minimum, the same amount of weight (or more) as it takes to static balance your wheel on the car. So, with loose wheel bearing, if it takes 5 oz of weight to get the tire to not seek a particular spot, then you will need at least that amount in the tube. Due to the way the beads disburse while running, once the wheel reaches critical speed, the amount of natural unbalance in the tire will be offset by the same weight of beads, and the remainder of "extra" beads will simply disburse randomly. Extra beads may be wasteful, but they aren't harmful.
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Mark Gregush
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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:50 pm

Loose bearing? So in order to balance your rear tire/rim you would need to move them to front. Wouldn't moving a rears to front still maybe cause the wheel as an assembly to be out of balance when the wheel/rim was put back on in the rear? It would be kinda hard to spin a rear wheel and not have it drag mounted on the axle. The wheel itself could be just as out of balanced. Using a bubble balance-er to do the whole wheel assembly I could see, but not on the car.
I have not seen the need to balance mine at the speeds I drive most of the time and even when I got to over 50 on the straight, ah heck it's a Model T with enough vibrations anyway to have noticed if it needed balancing with the 30X3-1/2 wheels and the narrow contact to road or if it was the road itself. ;)
Not against balancing and would use the beads or liquid if I did.
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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:36 pm

My experience has been that rear unbalance is all but undetectable under 35MPH. If I was to put in balance beads, I'd put 4oz in the rear and be done with it. On the front, it might be prudent to see if 4oz is even enough.

After putting them in for others, I personally find the installation hassle and expense, exceeds my desire to install them for myself. I don't have enough unbalance to warrant it. My father on the other hand has a tire/rim so far out, he installed a significant amount of stick-on weights and it helped immensely. That wheel would take WELL beyond 4oz to balance with beads.
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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Rich Bingham » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:21 pm

I suppose if I were smart enough either to fine tune my Lizzie, or opt to “soup it up” with all the improved cranks, cams, heads, carbs and ignition now available, and I rolled on paved roads at 50 per and quicker, I’d see the need for balancing.

As it is, I mostly travel dirt and gravel, and Lizzie complains at being pushed over 35mph on pavement. I’d appreciate some instruction here, as my perception is that out of balance wheels/tires are not much if an issue below 40mph. Perhaps that’s the reason no one was too concerned a century ago with brass valve stems that weighed heavy with their dust covers that would require a sizable chunk of lead to offset ?
"Get a horse !"

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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by DanTreace » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:51 pm

IMO and experience, balancing the new tires on the wheel helps with overall good tire wear, coupled with correct front alignment. Handling seems better with balanced wheel and tire. Even at my road speeds of 32-38 most times.

Easy with wire wheels, as you can bubble balance the Ford welded wire wheel, with adding glue on weights to get the tire and wheel in balance. For me, new tires require re-balance. When removing the old tires, the balance weights placed on the rim of the wire wheels had to be removed, and new weight positioned. That to me confirms tires are different and re-balance helps out.


For me, have never used tire beads in the tubes, as these work only at road speeds, that sling the beads where needed. At rest, the beads take another place in the tube. And seems to me hard bounce of tire over bumps would continue to sling beads up or down. And IMO, any moisture in the tube from air ups, might cause lumps, or maybe wear the thinner rubber tubes? Don't know, just think so. Do figure tire beads in tubeless tires work as intended.

Some do it this way.....interesting method.
NWLotLqdQT2WhvD60Rw3dA.jpg

This method works for me.

Test weight.jpg
Moving weights around to find the best bubble center.

In balance.jpg
Once in balance, mark where weights will be placed.


Extra adhesive keeps those stick on weights best, paint hides them.

Weight applied paint.jpg
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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Jeff Hood » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:47 pm

As Alan Long pointed out, modern wheels are dynamically balanced which means that weights are placed on both the inside and outside edges of the rim, sometimes in different locations. This is important with todays wide tires, however on a narrow "T" tire where the weight will be placed on the flat of the felloe which is basically in the center of the width, a dynamic out of balance will most likely not be noticed especially at Model T speeds. Back when I was balancing tires in a shop, and before computer balancers, we still dynamically balanced but the operator was the computer and learned to recognize where to place the weights by the nature of the vibration on the balancer. Also, unless a tire was severely out of balance, the vibration usually wouldn't start until approximately 30mph and then go away around 35mph, and then come back again between 65-70mph. Unfortunately some of the "T" tires available are severely out of balance and the car begins to shake at 20-25mph and may take 6 or 7 ounces to balance. I have balanced many modern tires on aluminum wheels, including semi-truck tires on aluminum wheels that took less than an ounce to balance.

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Re: Wheel Balancing weight diagnosis

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:16 pm

for the beads, the recommend amount is 6 oz per wheel, at least that's what Lang's shows. Wire's, 4 oz.
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