These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Mindless Automaton
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:47 am
First Name: Kep
Last Name: Kerensky
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 23 truck, 26 bug
Location: Northland
Board Member Since: 2011
Contact:

These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Mindless Automaton » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:55 am

I know I should be glad that these are available but I really should have ground some of the serrated edge off. When it touches the spring or perch they tend to bite & then the shackle itself wears in places that it shouldn't.
Thinking of re-making the worn parts in 8MM steel rather than the 5.5 MM they're currently made from.
spring shackles.jpg
The moral of the story is, if you haven't examined your spring shackles closely lately, it might be a good idea to do so.

User avatar

jagiven
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:13 am
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Given
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Roadster, 25/26 speeder
Location: St. Paiul

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by jagiven » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:39 am

Thanks for the heads up. We just installed the new shackles on the kid's car thi as fall. We'll need to keep an eye on them.


D Stroud
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:45 am
First Name: David
Last Name: Stroud
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe
Location: Mound City, MO 64470
Board Member Since: 2011

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by D Stroud » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:07 am

This type of shackle has been discussed some time ago on the old forum. You are right, they suck. As far as I'm concerned, they should be banned. JMHO. Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.


Shane Lach
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:36 pm
First Name: Shane
Last Name: Lach
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Tudor and 1921 speedster in progress
Location: Milford, NH

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Shane Lach » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:08 am

A friend of mine had a repro shackle rip apart there. Maybe he'll chime in

User avatar

RustyFords
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
First Name: Don
Last Name: Allen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
Location: Houston, TX
MTFCA Number: 50001

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by RustyFords » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:00 am

I'm only two years into Model T's but I could see, even with my novice eyes, that those new repro shackles were no bueno.

It took me a while, but I found a good set of used original Ford script shackles that'll be installed this weekend. They're not perfect but they fit nice and snug inside the brand new bushings I bought, so I'm happy with them.

I've heard the repros that Chaffins makes are also good. As soon as my car is finished mechanically, I'm going to buy a complete set of everything that will wear out on the car and stash it for the day when all these suppliers are gone. And...a set of Chaffin's shackles is on that list.
1924 Touring

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 6789
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:20 am

For anyone interested this is a posting from 2013. I lost one shackle. The others are still working fine. I did buy some nice Chaffins shackles but have been too lazy to install them.
Rich
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1384559326
When did I do that?


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 runabout
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:40 am

The insidious thing about many reproduction parts is when they are not equal to the originals in design and materials, they are prone to early failure. I say "insidious" because it's the nature of the hobby that more often than not, they are installed on cars that are seldom used, and rarely see the kind of service that was common in their using life, so the perception is that if they fit the hole, they're just fine.

Not so for cars that see a lot of road time. Per Murphy's Law, they'll fail at the worst possible moment, usually on a tour, and far from any assistance. We have to be our own quality control nowadays if NOS parts can't be had.
"Get a horse !"

User avatar

Bill Robinson
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:24 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Robinson
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '21 Depot Hack, '25 Touring Car, '26 Roadster Pickup, '27 Tudor, & another '27 Tudor
Location: Salty Bottom, ALABAMA AL
MTFCA Number: 22487
MTFCI Number: 17887
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Bill Robinson » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:24 am

My car developed erratic steering problems 2 years after a complete front axle rebuild. At the time of the rebuild I saw no need in spending the extra $ on the forged type shackles, so the new ones that I installed were the less expensive stamped type with the knurled pins. Upon inspection the wear of the end plate was easy to spot. This wear, created lots of "wobble" in the pins allowing the camber to constantly change depending on the road, bumps, and contour of the pavement. New forged shackles were installed and good steering was restored.
Attachments
The WOBBLE Maker. Some may call it the WIDOW Maker.
The WOBBLE Maker. Some may call it the WIDOW Maker.
stamped shackle wear2.jpg (24.72 KiB) Viewed 7736 times
Do you see the severe wear?
Do you see the severe wear?


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Original Smith » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:29 am

The vendors shouldn't be selling that crap. Good used genuine Ford shackles are everywhere, you just have to look for them. For those of you that don't go to swap meets, ebay is a good start. The early ones can be welded up and turned down to standard.


Adam
Posts: 1411
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: Adam
Last Name: Doleshal
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘13 Touring, ‘24 Touring, ‘25 TT dump truck, ‘26 Tudor, ‘20 Theiman harvester T powerplant, ‘20 T Staude tractor
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 23809
MTFCI Number: 1
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Adam » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:41 am

Original Smith wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:29 am
Good used genuine Ford shackles are everywhere, you just have to look for them.
2017 & 2018 I took my digital calipers with me to Chickasha and Hershey. I found maybe a total of 8 shackles that looked okay between those 4 meets. 3 of the shackles I bought at Chickasha were heavily primered and were too pitted to use after I cleaned the primer off. So, basically a total of 5 shackles at 4 big swap meets. I wouldn’t say they are “all over the place”...

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 4956
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
MTFCA Number: 52564
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:46 am

I think if you look around you will find lots of this style shackle in use on many cars. I am going to go out on a limb and say it is not the design, it is the material used, grade of steel and hardness.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup


Shane Lach
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:36 pm
First Name: Shane
Last Name: Lach
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Tudor and 1921 speedster in progress
Location: Milford, NH

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Shane Lach » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:53 am

So what would happen if you welded that pin on a new repro set?


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 runabout
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:03 am

Welding the knurled shackles would be a help. Big problem with repro stuff is that you cannot know what grade of steel was used. I would hazard a guess that the knurled design with an acceptable alloy would still be a problem past a certain amount of stress and use.
"Get a horse !"


Topic author
Mindless Automaton
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:47 am
First Name: Kep
Last Name: Kerensky
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 23 truck, 26 bug
Location: Northland
Board Member Since: 2011
Contact:

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Mindless Automaton » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:34 pm

jagiven wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:39 am
Thanks for the heads up. We just installed the new shackles on the kid's car thi as fall. We'll need to keep an eye on them.
One wrap of aluminium welding wire seems to space them out from the bushing far enough that they will not present a problem. For now.
A washer would be better.


Topic author
Mindless Automaton
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:47 am
First Name: Kep
Last Name: Kerensky
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 23 truck, 26 bug
Location: Northland
Board Member Since: 2011
Contact:

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Mindless Automaton » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:37 pm

Larry, do you know why I don't listen to you? It's because you don't live in a place called real life. And you post such 1950s spec' words on so many places on the internet that someone might think you have access to time travel. I don't.

I can't even find a timer let alone a shackle, and nobody can, or is willing to turn a shackle on a lathe. Trust me, I can't even find someone to turn my timer true again.


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Allan » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:46 pm

While not plentiful, L shaped shackles are to be found. GOOD usable ones are a rarity. Re-building the L shaped ones is not too difficult if you have a mig welder and access to a lathe. I made a tool to hold the welded shackle in the lathe. It is simply a short length of old T rear axle with a drilled and tapped hole in one end into which the shackle thread is wound, until it bottoms out on the shoulder on the shackle. I then use a centre drill to make a relief in the outside of the shackle, and the shaft is turned down between centres. When done, the relief can be filled with your choice of goo.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Adam
Posts: 1411
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: Adam
Last Name: Doleshal
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘13 Touring, ‘24 Touring, ‘25 TT dump truck, ‘26 Tudor, ‘20 Theiman harvester T powerplant, ‘20 T Staude tractor
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 23809
MTFCI Number: 1
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Adam » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:00 am

I’ve heard many people say they weld up shackles and turn them down. I’m sure this makes a good looking shackle, but the T shackles are hardened and a welded up shackle doesnt have a hard enough surface. Unless you harden them they will not last long. This could be okay for some vehicles that don’t get driven much, but I just wanted to mention this so people that have “welded up” shackles on their cars keep a close eye on how they are wearing!

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:33 am

IMG_0224 copy.JPG
I'm using built-up shackles, but with bronze bushings. I hope the wear will be on the bushings and not the shackles, but I guess I'd better do an annual check to see how they're doing.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by DanTreace » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:04 am

Those two piece repro shackles perhaps aren't hardened either.

Tried using on the rear for install, the spring was being pulled in place to fit, the other side slipped a bit, and bent that repro shackle as it slipped.
Never had that happen with Ford forged shackle. :( So decided then to refrain from using the repro.
sprung repro hanger.jpg
sprung repro hanger.jpg (20.61 KiB) Viewed 7427 times

Must be something to that soft repro, as this photo was on the old site a few years ago, soft metal worn by the serrated pin.
401616.jpg
401616.jpg (64 KiB) Viewed 7427 times
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 6789
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:14 pm

One of mine did the same thing.
Rich
When did I do that?


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 runabout
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Rich Bingham » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:10 pm

Obviously, the shear tension of the weight of the car is greater across the bushing and shaft than the knurled press-fit of the shaft in the shackle body. Just an entirely bad design, but cheap to make.
"Get a horse !"


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Allan » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:15 pm

Adam, Like Steve, I always use bronze bushes rather than the cheap rolled steel bushes Henry and the vendors supply. They have an added advantage in that they can be reamed for a custom fit, should my machining of the welds be a little off spec.
I buy new figure 8 and Mae West shackles for early cars. The rebuilds are confined to the forged one piece L type which are not reproduced.

Allan from down under.


Tiger Tim
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:09 pm
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Eckensviller
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 cut-off touring
Location: Thunder Bay, ON

Re: These new fangled spring shackles wear funny

Post by Tiger Tim » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:47 pm

Well now you have me wondering what replacement shackles I have on my car. As a known cheap-ass, I think I know what the answer is going to be...

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic