Stick in time took out crank?

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DanTreace
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Stick in time took out crank?

Post by DanTreace » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:27 pm

Just got these photos from a friend who took apart an early engine due to crankshaft failure. Lots of damage to the block too :(


Don't have much info on the cause, just can see the crank is in two pieces :o

IMG_20200125_133008449.jpg


However, a stick of wood was lodged completely into the funnel of the single Ford oil line, surely prohibiting oil flow to front of engine.
Don't know if piece of wood band lining, but somehow this stick sure stuck up the works.

IMG_20200125_133326702.jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Norman Kling
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:56 pm

OUCH! :x
That looks too thick for band lining. But it could be. I guess if you check out the bands and if they are wood and a piece has broken out of one, you will know. It looks like the block and crankshaft are toast. I guess that is a reason why an auxiliary oiler is good to have. I had one T where that funnel had broken off completely. I knew when it happened because the magneto quit. I ran on battery for about 10 years and finally decided to replace the magneto ring when I found it. That engine had been up hills and run at fast speeds over the period. If I had only the original oiler, same thing could have happened to mine.
Sorry for the loss.
Norm


Joe Bell
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Joe Bell » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:37 pm

I have seen blocks like that fixed but it would never go back into my car! I would never repair one like that either, to many bgood blocks still availible!

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DanTreace
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by DanTreace » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:12 pm

True, this block is now too many $ to begin a repair. Sad though, it’s a 1913 block :cry:
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Joe Bell
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Joe Bell » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:44 pm

The single reinforcing did not hold up to the extra strain, I have a mid your 13 that has the double reinforcement, that one does not have the lip on the top of the block but with single web?? I thought when the lip left mid year the double reinforcement where in there. I keep learning! What is the day/month of that casting? Thanks!


Allan
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Allan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:11 pm

Dan, have a really close look at the rear web and the break point in the block. What happens in some cases is the rear web cracks in the block, and if it gives way, naturally the crank goes too. As the crack develops, the surfaces "work" on one another, partially polishing the break line. Towards the outer end of the crack, the break will not be polished and the break will be clean.

I have seen a number of blocks where this has been the case. All but one have been early blocks. Rather than the crank breaking and wrecking the block, the reverse is true.

Either way, that one looks like toast.

Two of the 1912 blocks I know of were salvaged. One let go at low speed, and the rear main with the block bit still attached, did not get to fly about and destroy the block. It was welded back in place, and in the rebuild, the engineer owner had the alloy transmission cover re-worked so he could fit a starter for his wife to drive the car. A second was on a block which had been removed from service way back. I suspect the cracks had been identified and the block exchanged. That block was salvaged by having the rear main web professionally welded, and it was retuned to service in a restored car.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:46 pm

Ouch. Tough to lose a brass era block. Being a '13, it is marginal at best. But nobody knows for certain what ways the markets may go in the next ten to fifty years. That one may yet be worth repairing. If it were mine, I would be tempted to repair it

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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Richard G » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:04 pm

THE HUNK OF WOOD DID NOT CAUSE THE FAILURE, IT LOOKS LAMINATED , BAND WOOD IS NOT, CAN TELL BY LOOKING AT THE CRANK, ITS NOT SCORED ,IT DID NOT SEIZE, THE SPLASH SYSTEM WAS DOING ITS JOB, OTHER FORCES WERE AT WORK HERE,PERHAPS SOMEONE AT ONE TIME WAS DOING SOMETHING IN THE TRANSMISSION THAT NEEDED A PROP, AND THE WOOD FELL IN, THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS, THAT OIL TUBES JOB IS TO SUPPLY OIL TO THE FRONT OF THE ENGINE ON A EXTENDED 2 1/2 PERCENT GRADE. CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US, WERE YOU DRIVING ALONG--ENGINE UP TO TEMP,- OR JUST STARTING OUT,--THIS TYPE OF FAILURE DON'T TAKE PLACE SETTING IDLING, IVE HEARD OF IT HAPPENING WHEN STARTING,THE ENGINE, [WITH STARTER] BEING A 13 [NO STARTER]. THAT TAKES THAT OUT OF THE PICTURE, ABOUT THE BREAK IN THAT CRANK IS WHERE MANY OF THE FAILS' TAKE PLACE ON A --T--CRANK, MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER LOCATION, AND IT LOOKS TO ME IT WAS UP TO SPEED,BECAUSE OF THE DAMAGE DONE TO REAR MAIN, PERHAPS 25 OR SO MPH.IS YOUR ENGINE PRONE TO [FREE STARTS] ? HAVING WORKED ON STEAM LOCOS IN MY PAST THERE RODS WERE PRONE TO CRACKING TOO, NOT THE DRIVE CRANK BUT THE INNER CONNECTED TO THE WHEELS, WE HAD A SPECIAL HAMMER FOR THIS USE, HALF WAY BETWEEN THE PINS YOU WOULD WHACK THE ROD AND BY THE SOUND ONE COULD TELL BY THE REPORT ITS CONDITION, IF IT RANG LIKE YOU HIT A ANVIL- THINGS WERE GOOD ,A DEAD THUG IT WAS TEAR DOWN TIME, YOU CANT ALWAYS SEE THE PROBLEM , ON A --T--CRANK THERE IS SO MANY 0THER PARTS CONNECTED TO IT THIS TEST WONT WORK. MAGNAFLUX IS THE ANSWER, BUT THIS CANT BE DONE IN PLACE, --TRULY A SAD HAPPENING, PLEASE HANG ON TO YOUR DAMAGED BLOCK AND ALL THE PARTS, IT IS REPARABLE , THINK OF IT AS ONE OF A KIND,DO HAVE THE CRANK YOUR GOING TO USE MAGNAFLUX'D , SET IT ON A HUNK OF WOOD ON END,TAP IT WITH A HAMMER AND YOU WILL HEAR THE RINGING IT WILL MAKE IF ITS SOLID.GOOD LUCK IN YOUR REPAIR'S

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RajoRacer
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:25 pm

Any chance of you taking your caps lock off ???


baltrusch
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by baltrusch » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:35 pm

It’s a good candidate for a two cylinder job. One old article I read stated that the owner did that after he broke the crank similarly and it took 13 hacksaw blades to cut the block in two! People were more resourceful, and patient, back then! I have one of those engines and it sounds like a John Deere!

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:08 pm

Warning thread drift...When I went to Allan Shurmans auction, there was the start of a 6 cylinder engine sitting there. I did end up with the front and back pieces of the 2 engine they cut off to make the one. Matching head pieces too :D
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup

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Richard G
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CAPS LOCK

Post by Richard G » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:15 pm

STEVE, I'M 82 IVE OUT LIVED MY EYE SIGHT, WHAT IS IT THAT BOTHERS YOU ABOUT LARGE PRINTING, IN ORDER TO DO THIS I NEED TO SEE THE PRINT. I'M NOT HOLLERING AT YOU.


DHort
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by DHort » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:27 pm

Richard. Large print means you are shouting. It is also harder to read. You have a valid reason for using large printing due to your eyesight. Thank you for telling us why. Continue to do what you are doing.

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TRDxB2
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:32 am

RICHARD, YOU CAN MAKE EVERYTHING ON ANY SCREEN LARGER BY HOLDING DOWN THE CTRL KEY AND TAPPING ON THE + KEY TO MAKE SMALLER THE CTRL KEY AND - KEY


Colin Mavins
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Re: Stick in time took out crank?

Post by Colin Mavins » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:41 am

I guess I was lucky then the 1912 crank went all that broke on the block was the timing cover we added the out side oil line in the rebuild.

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