Question on babbitting

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Will_Vanderburg
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Question on babbitting

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:54 pm

Some day I hope to get someone to teach me how to Babbitt my own engine, as I would like to learn before I die.

Anyway, I'm perusing the Service manual, the service bulletins and the KR Wilson catalog, and all three state that heating the block before pouring the Babbitt is not necessary. The service manual and bulletins actually state the reason why.

However, I've watched videos and read other's descriptions of them pouring the block, and all of them preheat the block first.

What do we know now that Ford didn't know 100 years ago?
William L Vanderburg

1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan


Dan Hatch
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Dan Hatch » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:05 pm

William : If you ever pour Babbitt into a cold block you will only do it once. You “heat” block to dry it off. Dan

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JTT3
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by JTT3 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:04 pm

Dan is so right. Talk about an explosive situation. Don’t ask me how I know.


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Kerry » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:34 pm

Tooling up to do just one is not very cost effective, I've had others ask to do just what you are thinking, all to old to be of a benifit to the future of the hobby, because finding someone who can still Babbitt is far and few between at my end of the world, I offered , So if I'm going to show someone it needs to be someone young and have the interest to do it for many years to come.
I'm lucky enough that a 27 year old machinist by trade, has stepped up to bat for the interest of doing so, next month will be his learning induction.
To answer your question some, grey cast is very porous and as has been pointed out, holds moister also oil if not cleaned correctly, new blocks on the production line not a problem for cold pour but trying a half assed clean a hundred years ago, a cold pour might have been more successful than heating. A properly cleaned block doesn't need to be fully heated, I only heat around the bearing saddles.


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by hah » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:32 pm

What temperature would you heat bearing surfaces for removal of moisture?

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Will_Vanderburg
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:56 pm

I’m not wanting to do it for a living. I just want to be able to fix mine. I’m only 52 years old; I’ve owned my T since I was 29. I’ve worked on everything from a Model T to steam locomotives, so I’m not entirely stupid.

But make no mistake, I’m just wanting to add to my knowledge set.
William L Vanderburg

1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Luke » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:52 am

Will, just a supporting comment here as I completely 'get' the desire to do new things and learn through fixing things oneself.

I expect to be doing the same with my engine (or a donor) in the near future. Although I did something similar many years ago it's sufficiently long ago that it doesn't really count. While I'd prefer just to drive the car I do look forward to making it run a lot better, hopefully for a long time!

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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by JTT3 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:12 am

Will this may be totally wrong, we use a butane jet burner (like you use to boil mud bugs) with a heavy steel plate over it then set the block on the plate and bring it to about 500 degrees. We bought a high temp 400 watt electric Palmer hot pot for the Babbitt and bring it to about 750 to 800 degrees. We use a handheld laser temp gauge to see where we are with the temps. It’s actually not to difficult once you practice and get organized on your procedure, actually fun when you get a group of folks with you to help. We used a bad block to practice on getting our steps down before we went for the real thing. Hope you have fun in learning how. I would suggest contacting Gene French. He use to have instructions he’d send you if you bought his A & T block jig he makes. He also makes the jigs for pouring your rods too.


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Joe Bell » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:20 am

If you do a cold pour even with out moisture in the air when you tear it out look at the backside and you will see little tracks where air can be, like where a worm had crawled on asphalt. That is where the hammering the babbitt come in to place to fill those voids.


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by It's Bill » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:04 pm

Coming in late on this, but I have heated cast iron prior to painting and actually had water dripping out of the castings. I would tin any surface I was pouring babbitt against, and do research to determine just how hot the block should be while pouring. Mike Bender has a video on this.

Comments from someone who has never done this, but who has some experience working metals. FWIW

Cheers, Bill


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Gene_French » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:01 pm

Will:
I can email my procedure sheets for my design linebore unit and bearing molds … also, I will be at the Chickasha swapmeet in March and will have my tools on display in the south building at spaces SL4 and SL5 …
I do invite any who are interested to email and I can send my info. attachment pdf file … this is printable
always an optimist...Gene French

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Will_Vanderburg
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:05 pm

Gene, your attachments didn't come through. I sent you an email with my actual email address.
William L Vanderburg

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Gene_French
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Gene_French » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:57 pm

Will:
have re-sent info. attachment twice … hope this works … always an optimist...Gene French


Kohnke Rebabbitting
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by Kohnke Rebabbitting » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:11 pm

Blocks were not preheated as a step before babbitt. The pouring jig, that looked like Wilsons, but was not, was put on the block, and about a 3" torch, L.P. or Natural gas heated each shell. No, they never preheated the block, but did when they heated each shell, where the pouring jig was.

Herm.


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by BobShirleyAtlantaTx » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:59 pm

I use these sticks to tin with, poured in a cold rod they always look like this on the back. I do not tin, but I
BEC36508-36D6-4C96-898D-1D18D8B5C10D.jpeg
always preheat the block and mold.
Attachments
E9F889F6-ADFB-4D14-8466-405FD6A427F6.jpeg


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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by tdump » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:04 pm

The most cussing I ever heard my dad let out was when he tried to pour the babbit for the 2 bearings on the sawmill mandrell back in 1975. No one really told him how to do it,he had to learn the hard way. He first tried to pour it on cold cast,and it went everywhere but where it was supposed to. Used a cutting torch to preheat the metal,poured them,have yet to pull a shim and there is no telling how much lumber that mill has cut, But he oils it everytime it gets used and during breaks.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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John E. Guitar
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by John E. Guitar » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:31 pm

Bob, that is a great way to pour the tinning sticks!

I used to pour the babbitt onto a length of angled aluminium but I think your method is more appropriate for Model T work.


keen25
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Re: Question on babbitting

Post by keen25 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:13 pm

Will,
I started to try the engine build also. I got Gene's fixture and molds if you wish to look at them I live in Vineland NJ 08360.

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