Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

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Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:21 pm

I'm trying to find a .015 thousandth thrust washer for my 26/7 transmission. I have 3 of the original .042 ones and none of the vendors seem to have any of the smaller ones. Right now I have almost no endplay (maybe .001) so Mike and J&M recommended the .015 one. Anyone have any they would like to sell?


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Adam » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:27 pm

Something’s wrong. All 3 thrust washers in the ‘26/‘27 trans should be the same size and you should end up with some free-play. Off the top of my head it’s around .014” but I’m not in the shop now and can’t verify. I have a bunch of good used original thrust washers and can surface grind them to any size for actual labor time. Contact me thru email if interested. I would imagine J&M would have a surface grinder and could do the same without shipping, etc.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:43 pm

Robert I will look tomorrow, should have some in my rebuild buckets.

Update: Found some used and new ones varying from .039" to .046". Let me know if you can make something work.

Hank

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:27 pm

Thanks Hank but I think that's going to be too big. Adam. I think the reason why is the three drums are new from J&M and the rest of the transmission was made from other parts because all my parts were cracked. The 3 original ones are .042 and J&M told me that I would have to use some smaller ones from the vendors. Unfortunately they are all out of stock. I may take you up on your offer to grind one of mine down if I can't find one. Thanks for the input so far everyone.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Tlman » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:27 pm

Clutch drums are a dime a dozen and for whatever reason not all the same. I keep a bin full of them and measure from the inside face down to the lock bolt. Simply substitute for one that provides enough clearance. You can turn that face back to suite if needed.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Dan McEachern » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:26 am

Are you 100% certain that you have the correct clutch hub? There are two different ones and the set screw is not located in the same place on the early one compared to the later one.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:11 am

Good catch Dan, forgot about that.

Hank

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:41 am

Thanks for the input everyone. Yes the Clutch hub I have fits the set screw. It went in. Turning the hub would work but rather than sending it out to a machine shop it seems easer to find a thiner washer.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:29 pm

It may simply be that you pressed the hub too far onto the shaft. Remove the set screw and partially pull the hub back off. Then tap it down just enough that the set screw will go into the hole.

Stephen


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Dan McEachern » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:44 pm

I think you may have the wrong hub- the set screw will fit in either hub.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Joe Bell » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:53 pm

Some of the new drums are a tad longer than originals I have had to face the bearing surface off to get the dimension you need for the three washers on a rebuild. You might want to set them up on a flat table and measure what you have and what was on it in the beginning.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:17 pm

Well I ordered a washer from RV Anderson and I'm going to give that a try. I think I have the correct cup because I was able to put it on and put the screw and key in all the way. I do think I may have put it on too far because I couldn't get the screw in and then I pulled it up just a tiny bit and it went in. I bet I could have pulled it up a bit more and created more of a gap.

Thanks again for all your input.

By the way RV Anderson was great to deal with. Me just buying one washer is small potatoes compared to a vendor and they were ok with that.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:23 pm

Most will put the driver and car first, then worry about the money later or size of order. RV is about preservation and goodwill.

Just my $.03 worth,

Hank

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:13 pm

Yup RV was great to deal with. He gave me some good info as well. It's been my experience that most Model T folks are great people who like to help each other out.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Adam » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:53 am

I’m pretty certain that all the driven gear shafts and all the transmission shafts were the same dimensions throughout production. The clutch disc drums changed dimensions when Ford made the change in the rear driven gear sleeve bushing from the one piece “top hat” style to the plain bushing and 3 washers. See “Transmission Driven Gear Sleeve Bushing” article in the service bulletin below. The bulletin is from May 1920, but the actual changeover in the parts was before that date...

With the dimensions you have stated, I’m pretty sure you are attempting to make a pre-‘16 disc drum “work” in a late transmission. You might be better off just installing a later disc drum (the correct part). Since the outside dimensions of all the disc drums are the same; use of an early disc drum in a late transmission will cause the front and rear face of the disc drum to be further forward. Will that roughly .020” make a difference? It might not matter, but I couldn’t tell you for sure because I’ve never tried putting one together that way.

AF2609BB-7610-4ABC-ABA5-06D888229D89.jpeg

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:12 pm

Adam How do you tell if you have a correct 26/7 disk drum?

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:37 am

Robert,

I believe I have some cleaned ready to install left over from my rebuilds. Let me know, just pay the shipping.

Hank


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by got10carz » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:11 am

Someone refresh my memory. If the front bushing in the brake drum collar isn't installed deep enough, won't that reduce end play? I'm talking about where it would sit against the radius of the main shaft.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Adam » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:19 pm

got10carz wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:11 am
Someone refresh my memory. If the front bushing in the brake drum collar isn't installed deep enough, won't that reduce end play? I'm talking about where it would sit against the radius of the main shaft.

You are correct. If the front bushing isn't pressed far enough in, there can be a clearance problem that looks like too little endplay but is in fact caused by the front bushing edge bottoming on the transmission shaft to front face radius.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Adam » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:27 pm

Mopar_man wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:12 pm
Adam How do you tell if you have a correct 26/7 disk drum?
By what I have in my shop notes: The early disc drum that is designed for use with the thinner “top hat” style bushing will generally either have NO Ford script on it anywhere, or it Will Have the Ford script on the Same Side as the machined face. The later disc drum that is designed for use with the three steel washers generally has a Ford Script located towards the back of the car, (on the face you see when you are installing it and tightening the set-screw).

There could be a few disc drums out there that do not conform to these guidelines due to manufacturing variances/errors, aftermarket parts, etc., but they should be rare at best. I believe Trent Boggess may have done some actual research on this part. My written shop notes cite him as a source.


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Adam » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:06 pm

Additional info that may help:

In every transmission I assemble, the final “Test” I rely on is pressing the disc-drum onto the transmission shaft and leaving .018” clearance to the washers. I then use a dental mirror and a flashlight to look straight into the hole for the set-screw. If the threaded hole in the disc drum and the blind hole in the transmission shaft are not aligned well enough for the set screw to thread all the way in and bottom firmly against the bottom of the hole, then you know you have a “non-original” combination of parts.

I really like to keep combinations of mechanical parts as originally “correct” as possible just to help avoid any “unforseen” or “unrealized” consequence. It may be just fine to use a thinner washer in a late transmission with an early disc drum, or to use 3 thick washers with an early disc drum and re-machine the rear face of the transmission shaft but I have not personally researched and proven those combinations, so I can not make those recommendations and stand by them. If somebody experienced is doing the work for you and says that’s just fine, never had a problem with that, will stand behind it, then it should be fine.

One of the very most important things to look at in this area of the transmission is that the front face of the disc drum extends past the rear clutch disc face of the brake drum. In other words; Install a small clutch disc by itself and make sure it CANNOT get UNDER the disc drum. Earlier transmissions (pre-‘16) required a “distance plate” that was essentially a thicker large clutch disc. With an incorrect combination of parts & clutch discs in those transmissions the clutch likely won’t function properly or suddenly fail.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:22 pm

Thanks again everyone. This is all helpful. I'm going to take some pictures of what I'm working with. I have the upmost confidence in J&M Machine. I think my issue is the fact that I had to replace so many components. One small change and have a cascading effect on other parts. My clutch cup does have the Ford script on back side of it.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:32 pm

OK First if the administrator want to move this to the General side of the forum that's ok with me. Now for some pictures.

Here is the new shaft brake drum and bushing. You can see that it is flush.
IMG_4075.jpeg
This is what my cup looks like.
IMG_4076.jpeg
IMG_4077.jpeg


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Adam » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:12 pm

Please post a picture of the bushing in the front end of the brake drum shaft.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:51 am

Do you mean this side?
IMG_4027.jpeg


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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Adam » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:36 am

Yes, now show it at about a 45 degree angle instead of straight on so I can see how deep the bushing is pressed in. I’m thinking that the bushing isn't pressed in far enough.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:48 am

If J & M installed the bushing, I'm sure it's pressed into the correct depth. From the above photo, it appears to have been pressed in the proper depth for the main shaft radius.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:35 pm

Dumb question.., the triple gear faces of the bushing were machined.., correct? If not they will can cause an interference issue. Just from my stupid experience.

Humbled Hank in Tin-A-See

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:19 am

Yup the bushing is pressed in correctly. J&M Machine does a great job. They even made the drums. They also machined and balenced everything, and weighed the triple gears. They did tell me that i had to order a thinner washer from the vendors. Problem was they were all out. I have been able to get one and I'll let you know how it worked out.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:28 pm

Well I posted how it all came out on my thread "Getting Rattles Back on the Road" I think I'm good. Thanks for everyones help.

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Re: Want to buy 26/7 Transmission Thrust washer.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 pm

Glad to hear Robert, thought you were searching for a hair transplant there for awhile!

Hank

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