WTB Winfield carb

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Jack Tarlinton
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WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:06 pm

Hi All,

looking for a Winfield carb for an engine I'm starting to plan for a 27 T. I live on a river and the climb out of here is around 250 feet on very steep roads and I plan on doing a lot of touring with this car, so I want a bit more grunt for the hills and more legs on the highways.

I'll consider up, down or side draft as I have no manifolds at present and would prefer to plan the rest of the build around the carb.

My preference is for a complete carb rather than have to find hard-to-get parts.

I'm also happy for Winfield owners to chime in with their advise!

I should mention that I'm in Australia so the seller should be willing to ship, though I do have a friend in LA if shipping is a concern.

Feel free to send me a private message, comment here or use my profile to email me.

Thanks everyone!
Last edited by Jack Tarlinton on Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Model T Tom » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:35 pm

I have 2 rebuilt for sale. It will take a few days to look. What size


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Model T Tom » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:38 pm

Both are up draft


Kevin Pharis
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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Kevin Pharis » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:53 pm

There are quite a few models to choose from... V, H, M, N, S, SR. And let’s not forget about size... 1” thru 2-1/4” nominal sizes were available from these various models, some updraft, some downdraft, and a few sidedraft too. There are even sidedraft adapters to convert the S and SR models.

Let’s start by asking what are you hoping to power with this carb... a relatively stock T motor...? A dual cam Fronty...?

I may be able to help with the “hard-to-find” parts too;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14905&p=161029#p161029


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:19 pm

Model T Tom wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:35 pm
I have 2 rebuilt for sale. It will take a few days to look. What size
I need to do some deeper research on size, sorry to be vague, but look forward to seeing what you have!


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:59 pm

Hi Kevin

I live in a very steep area and am also wanting to do a lot of touring so would like more speed on the highway. I don't have the budget for a Rajo or Fronty project!

I'm thinking about the following (but nothing is written in stone):

High compression 8:1 head

.280 lift cam

Aluminium pistons

SCAT crank

It's likely that I'll do away with the magneto and explore other options.

I presume manifold choices are dictated somewhat by the choice of carburettor.

As far as the size is concerned, I am having a hard time finding good information regarding this, but was thinking 1" or 1 1/4" due to what can be gleaned from Winfield ads of the time.

Hope all of this helps!

Thanks Kevin.


Kevin Pharis wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:53 pm
There are quite a few models to choose from... V, H, M, N, S, SR. And let’s not forget about size... 1” thru 2-1/4” nominal sizes were available from these various models, some updraft, some downdraft, and a few sidedraft too. There are even sidedraft adapters to convert the S and SR models.

Let’s start by asking what are you hoping to power with this carb... a relatively stock T motor...? A dual cam Fronty...?

I may be able to help with the “hard-to-find” parts too;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14905&p=161029#p161029


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Kevin Pharis » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:00 am

The 1” carbs were sold as a performance improvement for a T, or a stock replacement for an A. Consider that each 1/4” increase is roughly a 40-50% increase in air volume.

FYI, I run a SR-C updraft on my flathead powered speedster. Some would consider the motor slightly modified 😉


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:16 am

Thanks Kevin,

Is there anything to consider when pairing carbs with intake and exhaust manifolds?

Is higher volume for both always better in this case?

Jack

Kevin Pharis wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:00 am
The 1” carbs were sold as a performance improvement for a T, or a stock replacement for an A. Consider that each 1/4” increase is roughly a 40-50% increase in air volume.

FYI, I run a SR-C updraft on my flathead powered speedster. Some would consider the motor slightly modified 😉


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by mlane65 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:28 am

Here's my hill climb combination :lol: :lol:
Attachments
IMGP2701.JPG


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:41 am

Man that is beautiful!
mlane65 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:28 am
Here's my hill climb combination :lol: :lol:


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Kevin Pharis » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:58 am

^^^^^^^^^
Now that’s a nice lookin engine!

Looks like SR-A (1”), or AA (1.125”) carbs...?


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by mlane65 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:17 am

B's 1-1/2"


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Kevin Pharis » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:47 am

mlane65 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:17 am
B's 1-1/2"
Perfect! I hope to have a pair of B’s someday too...😉


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Model T Tom » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:08 am

My friend will look sunday or Monday and take pictures


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:53 am

Thanks Tom, appreciate it.
Model T Tom wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:08 am
My friend will look sunday or Monday and take pictures


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by speedytinc » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:42 pm

Jack Tarlinton wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:59 pm
Hi Kevin

I live in a very steep area and am also wanting to do a lot of touring so would like more speed on the highway. I don't have the budget for a Rajo or Fronty project!

I'm thinking about the following (but nothing is written in stone):

High compression 8:1 head

.280 lift cam

Aluminium pistons

SCAT crank

It's likely that I'll do away with the magneto and explore other options.

I presume manifold choices are dictated somewhat by the choice of carburettor.

As far as the size is concerned, I am having a hard time finding good information regarding this, but was thinking 1" or 1 1/4" due to what can be gleaned from Winfield ads of the time.

Hope all of this helps!

Thanks Kevin.


Kevin Pharis wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:53 pm
There are quite a few models to choose from... V, H, M, N, S, SR. And let’s not forget about size... 1” thru 2-1/4” nominal sizes were available from these various models, some updraft, some downdraft, and a few sidedraft too. There are even sidedraft adapters to convert the S and SR models.

Let’s start by asking what are you hoping to power with this carb... a relatively stock T motor...? A dual cam Fronty...?

I may be able to help with the “hard-to-find” parts too;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14905&p=161029#p161029
8-1 head? where are you getting this? If its a Pruis head, is 6-1 actually. Look @ combustion chamber CC's not the hype.

2 of my full body flathead T's will do 70(cruise happily all day @ 55) on the flats & climb a local mountain to 8,000' @ a steady 40mph. Rux with 3.07 gears 6-6.5 to 1. Bosch front plate & oo9 distributors.
One has T crank, B manifolds with A carb.
The other runs a Scat, 1.250 rods & mains, vaporizer exh, center exhaust outlet & dual side draft NH's This T was snappier with a 30mm vw carb, but the period carbs are cooler & no fuel pump. (27 roadster P/U)


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Model T Tom » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:06 pm

Pruis head 5.5 just saying


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by speedytinc » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:09 pm

Model T Tom wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:06 pm
Pruis head 5.5 just saying
My bad. I believe you are right, I have my compression specs @ home. Its very close to the Z head.


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:48 pm

Thanks John, I may contact you directly to ask more about what you're running.

As for the head I quoted, it's a Sherman style head, is 8:1, and available at both Langs and Snyders.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3001HP.aspx

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/Prod ... nder-heads

Not sure if it is the same head, but there is also an 8:1 available at Chaffins Garage credited to Kevin Prus.

And of course none of the vendors list chamber volumes...

Like I said, I'm in the planning stages and am happy to absorb all the feedback and advise I can get!

Thanks again.
speedytinc wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:42 pm
Jack Tarlinton wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:59 pm
Hi Kevin

I live in a very steep area and am also wanting to do a lot of touring so would like more speed on the highway. I don't have the budget for a Rajo or Fronty project!

I'm thinking about the following (but nothing is written in stone):

High compression 8:1 head

.280 lift cam

Aluminium pistons

SCAT crank

It's likely that I'll do away with the magneto and explore other options.

I presume manifold choices are dictated somewhat by the choice of carburettor.

As far as the size is concerned, I am having a hard time finding good information regarding this, but was thinking 1" or 1 1/4" due to what can be gleaned from Winfield ads of the time.

Hope all of this helps!

Thanks Kevin.


Kevin Pharis wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:53 pm
There are quite a few models to choose from... V, H, M, N, S, SR. And let’s not forget about size... 1” thru 2-1/4” nominal sizes were available from these various models, some updraft, some downdraft, and a few sidedraft too. There are even sidedraft adapters to convert the S and SR models.

Let’s start by asking what are you hoping to power with this carb... a relatively stock T motor...? A dual cam Fronty...?

I may be able to help with the “hard-to-find” parts too;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14905&p=161029#p161029
8-1 head? where are you getting this? If its a Pruis head, is 6-1 actually. Look @ combustion chamber CC's not the hype.

2 of my full body flathead T's will do 70(cruise happily all day @ 55) on the flats & climb a local mountain to 8,000' @ a steady 40mph. Rux with 3.07 gears 6-6.5 to 1. Bosch front plate & oo9 distributors.
One has T crank, B manifolds with A carb.
The other runs a Scat, 1.250 rods & mains, vaporizer exh, center exhaust outlet & dual side draft NH's This T was snappier with a 30mm vw carb, but the period carbs are cooler & no fuel pump. (27 roadster P/U)


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:05 pm

Kevin's Hi Compression head really is a thing of beauty. It has also been reliably and consistently cc'd to well less than 6:1. Who can know why it is advertised as something else? I certainly don't know.

That said, it is a very high quality product and has plenty of admirers who claim better performance than the Z head, along with a better looking, better machined execution. Frankly, if you could actually locate an 8:1 head somewhere, the bottom end of your engine and the rods would not care for the environment they'd be subjected to.

Myself, I've gone to nothing but Waukeshau heads, and while the compression increase is miniscule, the improved combustion chamber combined with a Stipe 280 cam, provides a very significant boost in performance without the associated pounding of bearings

With regards to carburetion, the primary consideration is to maintain a stoichiometric mixture which will burn completely. This does not mean that simply bolting on one big honkin' carb, or a couple of carburetors will necessarily increase power. In fact, far from it. Carburetion, intake design, air flow, valve size(s), valve timing/overlap, volume, combustion chamber design and exhaust extraction all combine to form a complete system working harmoniously together.

If you're planning on running a Winfield, a 5H would probably be a good choice. If it runs well on your engine, then it will run VERY well. A good Stromberg OF would probably be a better all around carb for power, acceleration and very economical touring and is far more easily and cheaply obtained than a Winfield.

Since you want GRUNT, you'd be well served by either a 250 or 280 cam, advanced some. I'm running the commercial 7 1/2 degree cam advance gear and love it, but understand that ideal would be around 5 degrees. Dan McEachern will make you any gear you want and believe me, you want it. If you buy a Chaffin cam, forget the gear, as the advance is already built into the cam.
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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by speedytinc » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:36 pm

Scott_Conger wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:05 pm
Kevin's Hi Compression head really is a thing of beauty. It has also been reliably and consistently cc'd to well less than 6:1. Who can know why it is advertised as something else? I certainly don't know.

That said, it is a very high quality product and has plenty of admirers who claim better performance than the Z head, along with a better looking, better machined execution. Frankly, if you could actually locate an 8:1 head somewhere, the bottom end of your engine and the rods would not care for the environment they'd be subjected to.

Myself, I've gone to nothing but Waukeshau heads, and while the compression increase is miniscule, the improved combustion chamber combined with a Stipe 280 cam, provides a very significant boost in performance without the associated pounding of bearings
I questioned Pruis directly, He claimed the ratio was from a test motor compression reading & calculated. He gave me the CC's @220 =5.38-1. Z is 223 CC's = 5.4-1(my reading on a head with combustion chambers remachined for consistency.)
For the OP: sherman super fire 203 CC's = 6-1 I had been acquiring second hand lizzard heads one is 5.53-1 another is 160 CC's = 8.1-1(wont be running this one as is) A Riccardo I CC'd was 250 = 4.77-1. (no telling if it was machined)

Love the Pruis head. Wish it could be iron. Just finished a motor with one. Stipe 280. The power and speed is surprising. Stock manifolds & NH straight thru. Pulls 3-1 gears easily.


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:35 pm

John

if the Ricardo was a Waukesha, then I'd suspect it had been shaved once or twice for flatness as that sounds a little high. As I said above, I love 'em. There are some folks who claim "meh, no big deal" and resell them. I can't help but believe there are other things going on in the subject engine unrelated to ANYONE's head if that is the gut feeling after trying one. Power increase was obvious, and the spark lever ran at an entirely different location, requiring far less advance for any given RPM. I am convinced that despite little compression increase, the shape of the combustion chamber leads to improved efficiency of the burn and the effect in the seat of the pants is obvious.
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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by speedytinc » Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:37 am

Scott_Conger wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:35 pm
John

if the Ricardo was a Waukesha, then I'd suspect it had been shaved once or twice for flatness as that sounds a little high. As I said above, I love 'em. There are some folks who claim "meh, no big deal" and resell them. I can't help but believe there are other things going on in the subject engine unrelated to ANYONE's head if that is the gut feeling after trying one. Power increase was obvious, and the spark lever ran at an entirely different location, requiring far less advance for any given RPM. I am convinced that despite little compression increase, the shape of the combustion chamber leads to improved efficiency of the burn and the effect in the seat of the pants is obvious.
As I mentioned, I cant know if or how much was milled. I also have a giant head with the same ricardo combustion chambers & CC volume. It doesnt look like is been cut. FWIW.
I agree the combustion chamber design is the main thing. Harley-davidson rode the design to great racing success. In fact, harley offered an accessory "Rickey chip" to be added to cylinders to bump up the compression & chamber effiency.
Speed & power is a package deal. Changing one item is usually not enough, but just adding 25% more compression is very noticable.


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:24 am

All very interesting and helpful, thanks for all your input regarding heads.

i'm starting to lean towards a Winfield 5-H but I'm looking forward to seeing any Winfield options people out there might have for me.

Jack

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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by babychadwick » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 am

Not knowing what manifold you are thinking of running but considering it is a fairly "stock" engine you might try an inverted vaporizer intake. They are easy to come by and you can then run a side draft (stromberg works well) as the only modification needed is a plate cut that is threaded into the intake manifold (machine countersunk screws) then tapped to whatever bolt pattern your carb has.
"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail"


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by speedytinc » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:34 pm

babychadwick wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 am
Not knowing what manifold you are thinking of running but considering it is a fairly "stock" engine you might try an inverted vaporizer intake. They are easy to come by and you can then run a side draft (stromberg works well) as the only modification needed is a plate cut that is threaded into the intake manifold (machine countersunk screws) then tapped to whatever bolt pattern your carb has.
You can also run a vaporizer with a common repop winfield up draft, up side down. Iran that configuration with a VW carb. Not period correct, but ran well.


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Kevin Pharis » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:25 pm

Here’s a shot of the 4V from my ol ‘27 roadster. It’s a repop aluminum intake with a fabricated elbow. The offset carb flange worked well for generator clearance.
3128A2F2-D662-4E54-8D9F-D91B7ECC536B.jpeg
The barrel valve carbs (models V, H, M, N) work good when they are in good shape. If the barrels start to get loose in the housings, they will not idle well as the main and high speed circuits will not close off properly.

The 4V shown above had quite a bit of wear and was impossible to tune. I eventually built a new oversized barrel and remachined the housing to repair, and it ran like a top👍


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Re: WTB Winfield carb

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:29 pm

Hello everyone, thanks again for all your input and help!

I'm honestly not sure what intake I'll go with yet.

One important consideration is that in Australia our cars are right hand drive, meaning the steering column is to the right of the manifolds etc. This poses challenges regarding the use of certain carbs, generators/alternators and any other additions we might like to make.

This RHD is another aspect that has drawn me to the Winfield options - they look to be reasonably compact and compatible with intakes that are closer to the block.

I'd love a period Winfield intake, though from my research they seem to be less commonly available than the carbs. It's likely I will have to order an intake from the US, but I am trying to follow up on some leads here in Australia, but I think these leads are unlikely to bear any fruit...

I see Lang's have a reproduction Winfield intake which will suit some of the up/downdraft carbs and look to occupy a similar area around the block as the stock intake.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/WM-1.aspx

Langs/Snyders also have a high volume version of the stock dog leg

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3062HV.aspx

Please feel free to chime in and add your opinions, experiences and advise! I'm enjoying all the input (though perhaps I should move this to the general discussion if it is a problem with moderators).

Thanks

Jack

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