Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

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Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Hap_Tucker » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:08 pm

Mark posted the following question in the classified section at: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2204

“Do either of you know if these [ gas tank cover hinges for the steel panel ] are the same [front seat gas tank lid hinges] used in the 18 Roadster? They look different. I would like to find a source for those hinges myself for the 18.
Because the postings in the classified section are deleted (or at least used to they were deleted) I will post the Additional details here in the main forum.

Summary: Yes, the seat lid hinges 1915-1919 (and even later if it has the metal front seat lid/cover) are the same for the metal front seat covers used on the metal seat frames. Those are the hinges that Keith initially posted the photos of. And they are shown again below for reference:
1 - seat cover hinges 1915-1919 Keith Townsend.jpg
1 - seat cover hinges 1915-1919 Keith Townsend.jpg (6.51 KiB) Viewed 1184 times
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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Hap_Tucker » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:09 pm

(sorry - I'm losing the battle with posting the photos where I want them so -- one at a time)
1915-1919 metal seat cover hinge 3.jpg
1915-1919 metal seat cover hinge 3.jpg (14.15 KiB) Viewed 1183 times
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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Hap_Tucker » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:12 pm

Summary continued: No, the wooden gas tank cover hinges for the wooden seat frames used on “some” but not all 1915 and later 1918-1919 T’s are NOT the same as the ones shown in Keith’s photos.


Additional details:

From the on-line Model T Ford encyclopedia that Bruce created at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/A-B.htm it has:

1915-1922

FRONT SEAT LIDS T-7266
(Over the fuel tank)

Two different lids covered the fuel tank in the runabout and touring bodies; one of wood and the other of steel. The wood covers were used on bodies manufactured by Wilson, and Kahler. These were used on the touring bodies only. The metal covers were used on bodies made by Beaudett, Fisher, Kelsey, and Ford, and was used on touring and runabouts.

Dimensions were 35-7/8 x 16-1/2” (The wood lid was 3/8” thick.) The hole for the gas cap was 4” diameter, located (center) 6-3/8” from the front of the lid. The wood board was made of slats nailed together with two 1-1/4 x 34” strips, 1-1/4 from the front edge and 1-3/4” from the rear, centered between the ends of the boards. Twenty-two #15 x 1” box nails were used to attach the strips. There were two one-inch holes located 3-1/2” from the rear edge and 9-1/2” either side of the center line of the cover. A third hole, 1-1/4” diameter was located 1/8’ from the front edge on the center line of the cover. (From blueprints of this assembly.)

Note “Fossil Evidence” i.e. old Fords – appear to contradict some of the above. I.e. Beaudett touring bodies manufactured early 1915 to [from memory – not as good as notes – but I don’t have time to look it up tonight] at least early 1916 used front wood seat frames with wooden covers. Dec 1917 (1918 model year) Fisher bodies – also had wooden front seat frames and wooden covers (ref Donor in loft of Hap’s garage).

And from Bruce's Price List of Parts he has:
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jpeg - seat lids - From Bruce's Price List of Parts.jpg
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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Hap_Tucker » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:14 pm

If anyone has some photos or details on what type of hinge was used on the 1918-19 wooden seat framed USA cars that had the wooden gas tank cover, please let us know.

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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by KWTownsend » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:16 am

Hap-
Here are some images of wooden tank (and back seat hatch) cover hinges...
This is a 1913 (the photo was actually saved because of the top boot strap...)
1913 top boot 4.jpg
Most I have seen are this general pattern.

Here is a 1914 touring:
1914 body rear seat corner hinge.jpg
1914 body rear seat corner hinge.jpg (45.48 KiB) Viewed 1153 times
This hinge is a little different.

Based upon these, this is from my 1915:
1915 seat wood side.jpg
seat frame 1915 runabout wood.jpg
I got my hinges here:

https://www.kennedyhardware.com/steel-trunk-hinge.html

I subsequently have been told they are dimensionally a little different, but I can't verify it.

Note that not all wooden frame back seats have a cover:
wood seat frame back seat.jpg
These are images that I have saved over the years and wish I could give credit to the originals.

: ^ )

Keith

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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by KWTownsend » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:22 am


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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Hap_Tucker » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:14 am

Oops - I posted it on the wrong forum -- my bad...

Keith -- thank you so much for the additional information. And the link to the e-bay auction/store is a good source for hinges that will work with the wooden seat frame and wooden gas tank cover.

I will try to move this to the forum so it doesn't get lost / deleted in a month or so.

Again, thank you for your help.

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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by DontKnowMuch » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:19 pm

Are the hinges in the eBay listing (by Keith above) correct for a 1914 Touring? The 4 18" length seems a little large but maybe it is correct. The shape looks like the ones in the pictures.

Help??????

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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Hap_Tucker » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:54 pm

James,

I'm out of time again. But a quick review of the hinges at: https://www.kennedyhardware.com/steel-trunk-hinge.html shows one pair that is 4 inches long when open by 1 1/4 inches wide. That matches the drawing on Mel Miller's plans that are shown at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/7861.html scroll down to the posting on that thread: "By Robert Kiefaber on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 12:53 am:"

That also agrees with the 1914 hinges gas cover hinges discussed at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1442682002 shows an original 1914 with hinges that appear as the ones on the e-bay store.

But a different size (not as long) hinge is shown at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1308579191 where is has:
++++ By Dan Killecut on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 09:49 am:
Hap, I think RV Anderson took the 14 body pics. I bought this body at Hershey and used it on my 14 that was featured in the March April 2011 Vintage Ford -- ORIGINAL TWICE. I loaned RV the hinge that the pennies are next to so he could reproduce them.

And in one of the threads I looked at tonight (probably the one I just accidentally closed) it had a comment by Trent Boggess. He emphasized that because the bodies were supplied by different body companies to Ford -- they varied. One company might do things a little different from another company etc.

Summary: The hinges on e-bay would work for a 1914 that had a wooden seat cover over the gas tank. Note the MTFCI Judging Guidelines 7th edition does not address this part.

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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Retro54 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 pm

Hap, I will need to remember to take some good photos of mine. Believed to be as they came from the factory; January 1915 Beaudette Body. All I got right now is a photo of the lid up!
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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Retro54 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:23 pm

Hap, was able to take photos today for you. To the best of my knowledge, the hinges haven't been messed with on this car and are as installed in January 1915.

Andy B.
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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by KWTownsend » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:05 pm

Andy,
What are the outer dimensions of your hinge?
: ^ )

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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Retro54 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 pm

Boy, I am not sure. I'll have to ask my dad. The car is in his garage until we get it running and I make room in mine.

Andy b.


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Re: Wanted info - photo of 1918-19 wooden front seat cover hinge - also info on 1915-1919ish metal gas tank cover hinge

Post by Original Smith » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:00 pm

The hinges on my '17 coupe look sort of like the ones Hap posted, but the upper part to the rear looks like the early style used on the earlier cars. The door is stamped steel and has a bump in it to clear the gas tank.

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