WTB Early Pliers, Part No. T 1903

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:47 pm

The last tool I need to complete my 1911 Tool Kit! Thank you MTFCA and Bob for helping me with finding and buying the other two tools I needed. The following picture is the T 1903 Pliers I am looking for. Any help or leads will be great fully appreciated.

Post by **BigAl** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:04 pm

Still Looking. Someone out there must have one they would like to sell. Only responses I have received are from a Benjamin Kak, Glenn Priest, Goodness Ways, and Holy James who have tried to sell me my own picture. BEWARE!!! Way to many of these guys out there trying to poach our hobby. Hopefully some member and/or legitimate person can help me complete my 1911 tool kit. Thanks MTFCA

Post by **ModelT46** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:27 pm

Interesting. A pair that I use daily at my shop has the Ford script right of the hinge. I have a pair put away that was NOS and partly painted light blue. I will have to check on where the script is. I have several more, but you know that my stuff is here and there. I will see what I have in the tool bag in my 1910.

Post by **Fozz71** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:43 pm

Thank goodness crooks are very often idiots!

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:37 am

Still looking. Move to top

paulgriesse · Post by **paulgriesse** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 5:10 pm

Hi----I`ve got a pair looks like your picture except ford script on the lower handle about two inches from the jaw--I can email a photo if your interested Paul

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:57 am

Still Looking. Please see attached picture for the pliers I am looking for. I would appreciate someone's help to complete my tool kit..

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:23 am

Still Looking. Please see attached picture for the pliers I am looking for. I would appreciate someone's help to complete my tool kit..

Post by **Original Smith** » Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:56 am

I don't believe there is a Ford script on any early pliers. The band wrench is the exception.

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:21 am

I appreciate everyone's input on the tool's I need for my 1911 Tool Kit. I have been referencing the January 14, 2018 "1911 Model T Ford Tool Kit" article by Royce Peterson as posted in the Model T Ford Fix. I have found every tool per this article except this elusive Plier. Someone must have one out there. NEED YOUR HELP!

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:30 pm

Still looking. NEED SOMEONES HELP TO COMPLETE MY TOOL KIT! There has to be the plier I am looking for out there that could use a new happy home.

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:23 pm

Still looking. NEED HELP!

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:41 pm

Still looking for this elusive plier

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:33 pm

Let’s go to the top again. Someone out there must have one. NEED HELP!

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sun Nov 05, 2023 4:39 pm

Alan - check out the recent Forum subject about tools - he's got the pliers you're looking for !

Post by **1925 Touring** » Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:04 pm

These are the wrenches rajo racer is talking about:

Post by **RajoRacer** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:38 am

My mistake - I thought he was looking for the adjustable w/small script - my apologies !

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Nov 10, 2023 5:13 pm

Still on the hunt for this elusive plier!

Post by **J1MGOLDEN** » Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:42 pm

I have two pair with the wider grasp area and like Paul G. described.

I have never seen a pair like Ford is shown in the first photo, so they must really be rare.

Post by **J1MGOLDEN** » Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:47 pm

Then too, that lower handle has a screwdriver blade and that was not added until the screwdriver was eliminated from the ford Factory tool kit around 1920.

Post by **Fire_chief** » Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:56 am

It really isn't a screwdriver blade, it's more of an inclined plane. I just picked up a pair, but the Ford stamping is more on the handle.

Post by **DanTreace** » Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:42 pm

J1MGOLDEN wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:47 pm
Then too, that lower handle has a screwdriver blade and that was not added until the screwdriver was eliminated from the ford Factory tool kit around 1920.

Jim

The taper end of one handle was always present, early too. Note in 1915 the change to the dimension of the bevel and tip and note for use as screw driver, and according to a 1916 change the Ford script was noted on the print, but perhaps some suppliers of the early pliers did mark with Ford script.

Then later a change to the bevel length again in 1920 of the screwdriver end handle, to meet needs when the wood handle screwdriver was dropped from the tool kit. That made the pliers a 'multi-tool', so the screw drive end could remove the hogshead inspection cover machine screws for band tightening

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Nov 17, 2023 2:39 pm

Thank you for everyone’s interesting comments. Still looking for my elusive pliers.

Post by **George Mills** » Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:27 pm

Big Al,

Keep looking, you never know, just about when you are ready to quit...bada bing. [Said from a guy who has spent years on certain tool kit make-ups, or lantern kit make-ups. Like something non-tool totally elusive for decades just showed up actually on the cheap...I win, lol such satisfaction]

I will share something that most do not agree with...we all are not EXACTLY sure when started to 'logo' tools, we simply go off of some print of what someone put in 'the price list of parts' for a given year...correlated to the actual drawing if possible...correlated to the 'record of change' card on file. Sounds good...but doesn't answer your question as even that approach has produced foibles.

And...for items that exist before the first documentation date? JUMP BALL.

My personal take is that more often than not, with my turn for claiming no evidence either way, is that in the unknown seat of the pants guess quantity needed days chances are the original tools were but nothing more than someone else's out of a catalogue commercial tool that were bunched up, collected, tossed in a sack, and chucked into each car built. I personally believe that a bunch of these open commercially available tools with early logo were actually 're-strikes' of finished goods maybe with or without Ford requirement. That all changed when Ford actually created drawings and drawings show things...along with a paper trail. My point? If you can't find the 'real deal' in your quest...then go with an obvious 'later' for now...OR...at a 2 dollar table somewhere...find an identical plier but without the logo...to me, chances are for the early cars, a find like that is more likely real deal than not.

Good luck

Post by **Tony Delbianco** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:05 pm

Sorry, I don't have the pliers you are looking for. But I will add to the discussion...At least you get a bump to the top.

Attached are 3 photos of the 1913 French version of the "Ford Price List of Parts" book that is available on the Cimorelli.com website.

The tool section shows 3 tool kit tools that have "Ford" shown in the description. The 1917 Wrench, 2337 oil can, and the 1903 Pliers.

It's pretty well agreed that the Wrench and Oil Can had "Ford" on them in the early years. This seems to confirm the Pliers also had "Ford" on them?

Not a smoking gun, but a good clue.

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:51 pm

Still looking for these elusive pliers. To the top

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Dec 06, 2023 5:16 pm

Still looking for this plier. To the top

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:44 am

Still looking. To the top

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:06 pm

Help! Has to be one out there somewhere. To the top.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Mon Dec 25, 2023 9:28 pm

That darn Ford script turn up in multiple places and formats, so will we ever know what came when.
Here are pairs of pliers I have. The top ones have a bolder, more crude script so I have them in my 1912 van kit.
The middle ones have the script in a depression like the Canadian tyre irons I have.
The bottom pair have a less pronounced script in a variation of the position.
Can anyone authoratively date these?

Allan from down under.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:02 am

I have posted this selection twice now, and no-one has responded. I presume that it is not generally known when the variations occurred. The pliers Alan is looking for with the Ford script on the jaws is another variation. Is it known to be an early one that is indeed for a 1011 toolkit?

Allan from down under.

Post by **Walt Wise** » Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:08 am

Here is a pair for sale, but unfortunately have been dressed for the dance, only missing the stilettos!!! NO connection to the ad whatsoever!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276252161341?h ... R_CpmvaVYw

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:07 pm

I appreciate all the input from everyone on the pliers I am looking for. The basis of the pliers I am looking for is the article from January 14, 2018 by Royce Peterson on the 1911 Model T ford Tool Kit in the Model T ford Fix. It has a picture of the pliers I initially posted and am still looking for. This is supported by the Ford Factory diagram of February 1911 catalogue. If you blowup the diagram you can see it supports the pictured pliers in Royce's article. The pliers which Allan shows (top picture) and Walt referenced to eBay is what I am lead to believe, by many T opinions, is for possibly early to late 1912. I have never been able to verify that in any article or reference book. Anyway, someone has to have the plier I am looking for out there because Royce couldn't have the only one. If you have one please let me know and I will be glad to give it a great new home.

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:09 pm

Still looking and still hoping!

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 11:41 am

Let's keep trying! Move to the top

Post by **BigAl** » Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:28 am

Still Hopeful. Back to the top.

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:12 pm

Still wishing and hoping someone has one to sell. Back to the top.

Post by **BigAl** » Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:02 pm

Back to the top

Post by **J1MGOLDEN** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:00 pm

I have a pair like the lower ones in Allen's photo.

The Ford is kind of light or weak, but it is there.

Post by **jaybee47** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:11 pm

Post by Walt Wise » Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:08 am
Here is a pair for sale, but unfortunately have been dressed for the dance, only missing the stilettos!!! NO connection to the ad whatsoever!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276252161341?h ... R_CpmvaVYw

I bought this plier, stripped it bare, preserved with tung oil.

Post by **J1MGOLDEN** » Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:05 am

I never noticed my pair had the screwdriver handle.

I thought that came later!

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Feb 07, 2024 4:57 pm

Still looking. Move to top.

Post by **BigAl** » Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:02 pm

Still trying

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:46 pm

BTT Again.

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:23 pm

Still Looking, someone out there must have one. Need your help guys.

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:11 am

Back To Top

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:49 pm

Back For Another Try

Post by **BigAl** » Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:22 pm

Keep trying!

Post by **BigAl** » Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:43 pm

Back To Top

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:35 pm

Still Looking

Post by **BigAl** » Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:26 pm

Still looking

Post by **BigAl** » Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:55 pm

Back to top again

Post by **BigAl** » Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:53 pm

BigAl wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:47 pm
The last tool I need to complete my 1911 Tool Kit! Thank you MTFCA and Bob for helping me with finding and buying the other two tools I needed. The following picture is the T 1903 Pliers I am looking for. Any help or leads will be great fully appreciated.1911 T 1903 PLIERS - 091523.JPG

Post by **BigAl** » Thu Apr 18, 2024 11:25 am

NEED SOMEONES HELP, Still Looking!

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:40 pm

Still Looking, HELP NEEDED !!

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:49 pm

Try try again

Post by **BigAl** » Wed May 01, 2024 9:55 am

Still have hope

Post by **BigAl** » Mon May 06, 2024 7:53 pm

Still on the hunt

Post by **BigAl** » Wed May 08, 2024 2:52 pm

To The Top Again

Post by **BigAl** » Sun May 12, 2024 9:46 pm

Back to the top again

Post by **BigAl** » Thu May 16, 2024 9:31 am

Back to the top

Post by **BigAl** » Mon May 20, 2024 12:29 pm

Back to the top

Post by **BigAl** » Mon May 27, 2024 11:35 am

To the top again

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:46 pm

Try again, Back to Top

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jun 03, 2024 4:22 pm

Someone by the name of J—— emailed me regarding the pliers I am looking for and while I was reading it for some reason the email disappeared/deleted. The picture you sent was a later plier not the one I need or pictured. Sorry for the confusion but thank you for responding.

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:42 pm

Back to Top

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jun 17, 2024 8:18 pm

To the top again

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:07 am

Still Looking

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:52 am

Still Looking!

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jul 08, 2024 3:23 pm

Still Lookings

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jul 15, 2024 10:18 am

Once again

Post by **BigAl** » Thu Jul 18, 2024 1:25 pm

Try it again

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:11 pm

Back to top once again

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:02 am

Back to the top

Post by **BigAl** » Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:20 am

Back to top again

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:20 pm

Once again, must be one out there!

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:03 pm

Back to the top again.

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Aug 19, 2024 7:04 pm

Back to top once again

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:59 pm

Back to top again

Post by **BigAl** » Sun Sep 01, 2024 3:12 pm

Try again, someone out there must have one.

Post by **BigAl** » Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:55 pm

Keep trying!!

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Sep 18, 2024 10:01 pm

NEED SOMEONE’S HELP!

WaltM · Post by **WaltM** » Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:20 pm

On ebay. See this link. Regards, Walt https://www.ebay.com/itm/175859045609?m ... media=COPY

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sat Sep 21, 2024 4:25 am

They look to be later English manufacture to me.

Allan from down under.

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 11:22 pm

Back to top.

Post by **Original Smith** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 2:40 pm

Has it been documented Ford actually had a script in 1911 on those pliers? From what I've seen, the only tool offered in 1911 with a Ford script is the band wrench.

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:14 pm

I have not been able to verify or dispute through any Ford documentation the pliers I am looking (see picture in original post) for my August 1911 Touring. I have been referencing the January 14, 2018 "1911 Model T Ford Tool Kit" article by Royce Peterson as posted in the Model T Ford Fix. I have found every tool per this article except this elusive Plier. I need someones help who has one of these elusive pliers for sale or has a Ford document confirming the correct pliers I need to complete my tool kit. Thank you MTFCA. AL

Post by **BigAl** » Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:23 pm

Try Again.

Jonathan.2909 · Post by **Jonathan.2909** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 8:58 am

BigAl wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:04 pm
Still Looking. Someone out there must have one they would like to sell. Only responses I have received are from a Benjamin Kak, Glenn Priest, Goodness Ways, and Holy James who have tried to sell me my own picture. BEWARE!!! Way to many of these guys out there trying to poach our hobby. Hopefully some member and/or legitimate person can help me complete my 1911 tool kit. Thanks MTFCA

Holly James tried selling me the license plate bracket crank holder from Langs using their pictures lol

kevinf · Post by **kevinf** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:53 pm

Alan,
Here is another variation, not sure when they came out. It looks like the Ford script is stamped right below the rivet, not forged like others.
Good luck on the search,
Kevin

Post by **BigAl** » Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:43 pm

I keep trying!

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:09 pm

Try again!

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:40 am

Back to top once again

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:50 pm

Keep hoping!

Post by **BigAl** » Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:57 pm

Still looking!!!

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Dec 11, 2024 8:44 am

Still looking, losing hope. Help!!

Post by **BigAl** » Fri Dec 20, 2024 11:53 am

Back to top for 95th time.

Post by **BigAl** » Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:23 pm

Still looking, starting to lose hope.

Post by **Original Smith** » Tue Dec 31, 2024 2:14 pm

I have one in my tool kit that is very early with a script like pictured above. They don't show up often. It is not for sale for any price.

Post by **BigAl** » Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:26 am

Glad to hear these actually do exist. I will keep looking and hopefully someone out there has one and is willing to help me complete my tool kit. Happy New Year.