Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
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Topic author - Posts: 512
- Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: California
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring, 1912 Warren Speedster
- Location: West Coast
- MTFCA Number: 50392
Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
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Hello fellow Model T-ers,
As many of you know, I am hosting the Golden Gate and Alexander Valley Tours June 3rd thru June 10th.
I would like to include a one mile loop segment out over the Golden Gate and Pacific Ocean but am uncertain as to whether or not an 18% grade is too steep for a Model T to descend down. This thin stretch of asphalt road has been recently repaved and is in perfect condition. Only parts of it have an 18% grade. However, it is only one car wide (a one-way single lane) with zero shoulder on either side. Our tour would be the only traffic here on this Monday afternoon. You can view this beautifully spectacular, yet ominous, stretch on Youtube. Here's the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjRCHcmmfos
What do you guys think? Should I include it on my 'day one' Marin Headlands tour or avoid it altogether and choose a flatter way?
I would appreciate your advice.
By the way; We still have 2 spots available on these tours.
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Hello fellow Model T-ers,
As many of you know, I am hosting the Golden Gate and Alexander Valley Tours June 3rd thru June 10th.
I would like to include a one mile loop segment out over the Golden Gate and Pacific Ocean but am uncertain as to whether or not an 18% grade is too steep for a Model T to descend down. This thin stretch of asphalt road has been recently repaved and is in perfect condition. Only parts of it have an 18% grade. However, it is only one car wide (a one-way single lane) with zero shoulder on either side. Our tour would be the only traffic here on this Monday afternoon. You can view this beautifully spectacular, yet ominous, stretch on Youtube. Here's the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjRCHcmmfos
What do you guys think? Should I include it on my 'day one' Marin Headlands tour or avoid it altogether and choose a flatter way?
I would appreciate your advice.
By the way; We still have 2 spots available on these tours.
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- Posts: 663
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:15 am
- First Name: Tony
- Last Name: Bowker
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 touring
- Location: La Mesa, CA
- MTFCA Number: 32
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
I agree that it’s marginal. In setting up a tour you want it to be safe. For example, I try to limit left hand turns on busy roads. Sometimes a three rights and a few extra miles is worth the peace of mind.
Best try it in a T prior to publishing any route. How would you feel if there were a fatal accident after you had questioned the route. Strongly suggest you give it a miss.
Best try it in a T prior to publishing any route. How would you feel if there were a fatal accident after you had questioned the route. Strongly suggest you give it a miss.
Tony Bowker
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
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- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:01 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Von Nordheim
- Location: Fallbrook, CA
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
I would not do it......the Brakes very between model T's and drivers. Have just one accident on the hill and some one gets hurt bad..... may forever spoil your hobby and others.
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Topic author - Posts: 512
- Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: California
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring, 1912 Warren Speedster
- Location: West Coast
- MTFCA Number: 50392
Is this 18% grade too steep for a Model T to descend down?
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Is this 18% grade too steep for a Model T to descend down?
Your comments against including this segment on the tour make sense. I sort of knew this already. I just hate to have everyone miss such a spectacularly
beautiful stretch of road. Nevertheless, as you all have confirmed, and for various reasons, it would be too risky (perhaps even stupid) to include an 18% one-way grade, with no shoulders, on a Model T tour. C'est la vie.
Thank you very much for your advice.
Is this 18% grade too steep for a Model T to descend down?
Your comments against including this segment on the tour make sense. I sort of knew this already. I just hate to have everyone miss such a spectacularly
beautiful stretch of road. Nevertheless, as you all have confirmed, and for various reasons, it would be too risky (perhaps even stupid) to include an 18% one-way grade, with no shoulders, on a Model T tour. C'est la vie.
Thank you very much for your advice.
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- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Warwick
- Last Name: Landy
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 LHD USA Touring 1916 RHD Canadian Touring 1916 Pickup
- Location: Trarlagon Victoria Australia
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
My opinion seems to differ. Most folk who attend tours have their cars set up to tour, ie rocky mountain brakes or disks, and they know how to drive safely according to the descent and road conditions. The scenary looks spectacular in the video and I think tour participants who have travelled a long way would really enjoy it. I assume tour safety checks for the vehicles, so no unroadworthy cars would be allowed to participate. I say go for it and the tour participants will love it. I did a cycling tour across the bridge and down hill to that delightful little village at the bottom where we enjoyed authentic Italian pizza. It was a memorable day. Include it I say. Wish I could come and be part of it.
here is a link to some of the steepest and roughest Model T driving I have done. All cars were standard Model T and did it easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUD1MrExJoc
here is a link to some of the steepest and roughest Model T driving I have done. All cars were standard Model T and did it easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUD1MrExJoc
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- Posts: 200
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:08 pm
- First Name: Hal
- Last Name: Davis
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '22 TT Stake Bed, '18 Touring (Hers)
- Location: SE Georgia
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
I'm no safety nut or even REAL paranoid.....But having said that, the very fact you posted this on here would be GREAT ammunition for some ambulance chasing lawyer if something were to happen.
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- First Name: Walt
- Last Name: Berdan
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- Location: Bellevue, WA
- MTFCA Number: 16421
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
I'd never do it with stock brakes but then I've always had auxiliary brakes on my cars. If I were able to attend your tour I would hate to miss this. Would it be practical to have two choices for that section of the tour so folks with good brakes and confidence could enjoy that road and those who prefer easier routes could have their way too. That would be a stunning route in a car that had good brakes and steering.
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Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
Looks like there is an alternative route to Ft. Cronkite. Can you bypass the steepest part or simply make it an optional route for those that want to go that way? For serious touring folks, its just another day in a Model T.
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- First Name: Hal
- Last Name: Schedler
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 23 RA, 25 Fordor
- Location: Sacramento
- MTFCA Number: 16688
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Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
This beautiful Touring hit neutral when shifting an aux transmission when climbing a fairly sreep grade. The car did not have aux. brakes and overturned as it went off the highway near the bottom of the hill at high speed. The occupants were hurt.
Model T Accident 21949.jpg
Model T Accident 21949.jpg
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- Posts: 214
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- First Name: Walt
- Last Name: Berdan
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- Location: Bellevue, WA
- MTFCA Number: 16421
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
I don't know the person driving or the owner of the car but that touring accident was the result of two critical failures that I would put on the owner/driver. He/they may be some of the finest people in the world but -
Failure 1 - In my mind it is criminal to drive a T with an auxialary transmission without having fully functional wheel brakes.
Failure 2 - Don't shift a non synchro transmission on a hill! Shift before you get there. Fundamental driving technique that helps you stay out of the hospital or morgue.
OK - Flame me now but people need to learn how to prepare and drive their cars before they hurt or kill themselves or others.
Failure 1 - In my mind it is criminal to drive a T with an auxialary transmission without having fully functional wheel brakes.
Failure 2 - Don't shift a non synchro transmission on a hill! Shift before you get there. Fundamental driving technique that helps you stay out of the hospital or morgue.
OK - Flame me now but people need to learn how to prepare and drive their cars before they hurt or kill themselves or others.
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- Posts: 3389
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Wrenn
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- Location: Ohio
- MTFCA Number: 30701
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Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
I would use the rhyme that is used in
the food service industry about questionable food..."If in doubt...throw it out".
Clearly you have a reasonable doubt..so I would "throw it out" of the tour, or at least have an alternative route to get people to the same destination if THEY have any doubt. Takes the liability off the tour organizers, maybe.
the food service industry about questionable food..."If in doubt...throw it out".
Clearly you have a reasonable doubt..so I would "throw it out" of the tour, or at least have an alternative route to get people to the same destination if THEY have any doubt. Takes the liability off the tour organizers, maybe.
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- Posts: 434
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:55 pm
- First Name: Ed
- Last Name: Archer
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 replica Transcontinental race car, 1915 2 man race car, 1918 American bodied speedster
- Location: 1807 East Ave. Hayward, CA 94541
- MTFCA Number: 19
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- Board Member Since: 2009
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
Old school. You drive down a hill in the same gear that you would drive up it. And continually press hard on the low pedal so no band slippage! Problem solved!
Ed aka #4
Ed aka #4
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- First Name: Hal
- Last Name: Schedler
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 23 RA, 25 Fordor
- Location: Sacramento
- MTFCA Number: 16688
- MTFCI Number: 19356
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
Walber....Right On!
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Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
We have people in this club, and others too, who shouldn't own a Model T! Accidents do happen, but that shouldn't be because you don't know how to shift an auxillary transmission. To do so on a hill is asking for trouble. I used to run a Warford, and could shift it just about anywhere, but then, I knew how to do it. I finally got rid of it, because it was a pain in the ass!
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- Posts: 200
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:08 pm
- First Name: Hal
- Last Name: Davis
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '22 TT Stake Bed, '18 Touring (Hers)
- Location: SE Georgia
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Is this 18% game to steep fore a Model T to descent down?
Not Model T, but Model A.......I climbed and therefore descended Brasstown Bald in Northern GA in my stock Model A, much to the chagrin of those behind me (in both directions). There were many places going up that I had to get down into 1st gear, so going back down, I never left 1st gear. I'd rather be in first gear wishing I was in second than be in second gear wishing I was in first, and I sure as "L" wasn't going to downshift going down that hill.
I even downshift an automatic transmission when descending hills in the mountains. Makes it a lot easier on the brakes to just go downhill in a lower gear. My F-150 has a Tow/Haul button. That will downshift your transmission the first time you hit the brakes and will hold it in that lower gear until you hit the gas again. Very handy function.......and I'm not one for many bells and whistles, but I sure like that one.
I even downshift an automatic transmission when descending hills in the mountains. Makes it a lot easier on the brakes to just go downhill in a lower gear. My F-150 has a Tow/Haul button. That will downshift your transmission the first time you hit the brakes and will hold it in that lower gear until you hit the gas again. Very handy function.......and I'm not one for many bells and whistles, but I sure like that one.