And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 647
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
- First Name: CHARLIE
- Last Name: BRANCA
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
- Location: Brick N.J.
- MTFCA Number: 28967
- Board Member Since: 2010
And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
I suppose some of you have heard about Kevin Hart's accident. The Califunny Highway Patrol apparently takes some accident cars apart something like they do to aircraft to determine a cause. The story I just read talks about changes in laws governing collector cars. Talks about safety and what might be mandated for these cars. 3 point seat belts are mentioned + a few other items. Don't see how the T would ever be made to meet some of these "suggestions" but whatever the outcome of this investigation we might be seeing problems ahead.
Forget everything you thought you knew.
-
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:15 am
- First Name: Jason
- Last Name: Kuczynski
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915ish speedster in parts, building a T V8 roadster pickup for support vehicle
- Location: Detroit, MI
- Board Member Since: 2003
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
I read that too.
Reminds me of an argument I had with my mom over my 64 Impala SS when I was in my late teens. She was of the opinion that I was breaking the mandatory seat belt law in Michigan because my car didn't have any. I added a lap belt, but she thought (and now that I'm a parent I understand why) I needed a shoulder belt to comply.
So I called the local police and asked. After a couple minutes, the nice young lady came back and said that if they weren't OE, then they weren't technically necessary, but highly recommended.
I'm sure in the case of a car like a T, her advice is probably correct.
Reminds me of an argument I had with my mom over my 64 Impala SS when I was in my late teens. She was of the opinion that I was breaking the mandatory seat belt law in Michigan because my car didn't have any. I added a lap belt, but she thought (and now that I'm a parent I understand why) I needed a shoulder belt to comply.
So I called the local police and asked. After a couple minutes, the nice young lady came back and said that if they weren't OE, then they weren't technically necessary, but highly recommended.
I'm sure in the case of a car like a T, her advice is probably correct.
My other car is an Amish Drag Buggy.
Barnstormers VSC
Si vestri 'non prius novissimo
Celeritate Est Vita
Antique Vehicle Mechanic- Greenfield Village
Barnstormers VSC
Si vestri 'non prius novissimo
Celeritate Est Vita
Antique Vehicle Mechanic- Greenfield Village
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Car in question was modified from 4 seats to 2, and was carrying 3 passengers. It was modified with an 800HP Hellcat engine driven by someone not trained for such power, and was doing burnouts prior to speeding down a mountain road and rolling down an embankment. If any of these things fit with a T, then be worried.
Regarding seatbelts in a T, you really have to see the result of a T rollover to appreciate what the passenger(s) will experience, and then you may be convinced that you're safer without belts (or not).
I don't have them and it's not because I have a death wish...in fact quite the opposite.
Regarding seatbelts in a T, you really have to see the result of a T rollover to appreciate what the passenger(s) will experience, and then you may be convinced that you're safer without belts (or not).
I don't have them and it's not because I have a death wish...in fact quite the opposite.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
- First Name: Andrew
- Last Name: Clary
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout 1926 Coupe. Mercury Speedster #1249
- Location: Usa
- MTFCA Number: 24057
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
It was a challenger or cuda I think. Coming off Mullholland I would guess the problem was too much throttle travel. Not a problem in a T.
Andy
Andy
-
- Posts: 2293
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
- First Name: George
- Last Name: House
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
- Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
- MTFCA Number: 115
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Love your assessment Scott..Right on ! I don’t see a problem with Califunny’s legislative reaction to the Kevin Hart incident. Might even increase the Model T owners/drivers from that state to Texas and other reasonable jurisdictions
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.
-
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
- First Name: Henry
- Last Name: Lee
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
- Location: South Pittsburg, TN
- MTFCA Number: 479
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Scott and George
I see you are highly professional cabinet makers striking nails straight on.
Watch.., Cali-fruity will wind up suing the crap out of the guy who installed the engine!
My theory, simple, never build a car for someone who can not handle it. Money buys a lot and that includes misery in disguise.
Had a guy years back wanting me to build a RS/SS Camero for his son, High perforformance to the hilt. Kid 16 years old.., I said “No way, not here, you will kill your son”! He left mad as hell! 6 months later, he was making funeral arrangements.
Some people need to wake up! Lawyers love this crap!
My $0.03 worth,
Hank
I see you are highly professional cabinet makers striking nails straight on.
Watch.., Cali-fruity will wind up suing the crap out of the guy who installed the engine!
My theory, simple, never build a car for someone who can not handle it. Money buys a lot and that includes misery in disguise.
Had a guy years back wanting me to build a RS/SS Camero for his son, High perforformance to the hilt. Kid 16 years old.., I said “No way, not here, you will kill your son”! He left mad as hell! 6 months later, he was making funeral arrangements.
Some people need to wake up! Lawyers love this crap!
My $0.03 worth,
Hank
-
- Posts: 314
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:21 am
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Dufault
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915
- Location: Concord New Hampshire
- MTFCA Number: 303
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
1970 Barracuda rolls at a quarter to 1:00 Sunday morning????
How can that possibly influence Model T Fords?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertai ... 188869001/
How can that possibly influence Model T Fords?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertai ... 188869001/
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:18 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Osterman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 runabout
- Location: Rochester, NY
- Contact:
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Had I seat belts on when I flipped this back in 2000 I wouldn't have walked away from the accident.
-
Topic author - Posts: 647
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
- First Name: CHARLIE
- Last Name: BRANCA
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
- Location: Brick N.J.
- MTFCA Number: 28967
- Board Member Since: 2010
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
seems I didn't explain it clearly enough. doesn't matter what was done to the car or who was driving they are insinuating that the riders would have done better injury wise with seat belts and the possibility of requiring classic cars that don't have them to get them. I don't believe that the possible fact that getting thrown out of a T instead of wearing belts will play very well.
Forget everything you thought you knew.
-
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:55 pm
- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: Kelly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 23 Speedster, 25 TT, 26 Roadster, 27 Tudor
- Location: Noxon MT
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
I lost the brakes in my Roadster on a very steep mountain road over in Idaho and the last thing I wanted was seat belts. I wanted ejection seats!
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Pat
as an aside, what kind of brakes were they?
as an aside, what kind of brakes were they?
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:48 pm
- First Name: Tommy
- Last Name: Coffey
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '21 Touring
- Location: western NC
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
I've been told that our '21 Touring is the only one with a drivers side airbag. Reckon what they mean?
-
- Posts: 813
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:59 pm
- First Name: William
- Last Name: Vanderburg
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
- Location: Jackson, NJ
- MTFCA Number: 28382
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
the fact that they were doing crap in a car that they should not have been doing, and contributed to their own accident, I highly doubt Model Ts will EVER be affected.
William L Vanderburg
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
-
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:55 pm
- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: Kelly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 23 Speedster, 25 TT, 26 Roadster, 27 Tudor
- Location: Noxon MT
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Scott, they were stock cotton linings that were old and came apart. It was my first T so lack of experience and an unknown road added up. That road was like driving off a ball, it just kept getting steeper.
-
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:53 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Petry
- Location: Southern California
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
California DMV is just like the FAA to general aviation. They aren't happy until you aren't happy. Their goal is to ban everything that isn't electric so they can discover that the power grid can't support charging all the batteries and force everyone to use their high speed trains that won't go wherever you need to go.
Life is good on the lunatic fringe. Tom
-
- Posts: 2260
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:05 am
- First Name: Brent
- Last Name: Burger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 TT closed cab flatbed
- Location: Spokane, Wa.
- Board Member Since: 2014
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Bottom line, ... you can't fix stupid. Leftist lawmakers will never buy this, and
fight forever to prove we can all be safe. It's what they do.
fight forever to prove we can all be safe. It's what they do.
More people are doing it today than ever before !
-
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
- First Name: Michael
- Last Name: Deichmann
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1921 Roadster P/U, 1922 Fordor (danish custom body)
- Location: Rågeleje, Denmark
- MTFCA Number: 29116
- Board Member Since: 2007
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
You have to be careful here!
First I can only recommend you US guys to support FIFA, the international organisation for clubs for historic vehicles. In Europe they have managed to be accepted by the EU legislation bodies and we have so far managed reasonable conditions in Europe.
In the individual countries we have similar "umbrella" organisations chasing the national legislaters. I'm member of the board of the Danish one.
In Denmark we have a requirement of "originality" to get reduced annual fee and to get historic vehicles taxated at import at certain attractive rates.
They should "appear as at first registration". Originally that was an visual appearance as you all know you can't have a drivable historic vehicle 100% original. Now the danish tax authorities are taken this to the extreme requiring original spareparts and correct color and paint schema (no pinstriping for example). The background for this rule was to avoid that hot-rods and custom cars got the same benefits. Now that backfires. A Model T with a Ruckstell will not be seen currently as an original historic vehicle and will be taxated as a regular used vehicle. It's a wasps nest to go down that path. What changes would be allowed and still be considered a "original historical vehicle".
The custom cars can be regulated through technical requirements as already exists to all vehicles. The danish document is 7-800 pages
First I can only recommend you US guys to support FIFA, the international organisation for clubs for historic vehicles. In Europe they have managed to be accepted by the EU legislation bodies and we have so far managed reasonable conditions in Europe.
In the individual countries we have similar "umbrella" organisations chasing the national legislaters. I'm member of the board of the Danish one.
In Denmark we have a requirement of "originality" to get reduced annual fee and to get historic vehicles taxated at import at certain attractive rates.
They should "appear as at first registration". Originally that was an visual appearance as you all know you can't have a drivable historic vehicle 100% original. Now the danish tax authorities are taken this to the extreme requiring original spareparts and correct color and paint schema (no pinstriping for example). The background for this rule was to avoid that hot-rods and custom cars got the same benefits. Now that backfires. A Model T with a Ruckstell will not be seen currently as an original historic vehicle and will be taxated as a regular used vehicle. It's a wasps nest to go down that path. What changes would be allowed and still be considered a "original historical vehicle".
The custom cars can be regulated through technical requirements as already exists to all vehicles. The danish document is 7-800 pages
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils
-
Topic author - Posts: 647
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
- First Name: CHARLIE
- Last Name: BRANCA
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
- Location: Brick N.J.
- MTFCA Number: 28967
- Board Member Since: 2010
Re: And We're Off! Possible Law Changes
Have never heard this before Dykker. A real eye opener. especially the originality bits. Seems to be the exact opposite of what Cali. is thinking about. Are there any driving restrictions ?
Forget everything you thought you knew.