Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:41 am

In researching Holley G float adjustment I came across these diagrams.
DIAGRAMS.png
I wonder if anybody here can ID the source publication.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Will_Vanderburg
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:59 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: Vanderburg
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
Location: Jackson, NJ
MTFCA Number: 28382

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:53 am

Steve,

It's from the January 1st, 1920 Ford Service Bulletin
William L Vanderburg

1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan


keen25
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:14 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Keenan
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 coupe, 1925 TT, 1926 coupe, 1925 Tudor, 1925 pickup, 1926 fordor
Location: Vineland, NJ

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by keen25 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:08 am

Hi Steve,
I was wondering if you are looking for the carb tools shown in the illustrations? I don't have them but If anyone has a pattern to reproduce carb tools it would be most likely of great interest. It is not my intention to tread on your thread but just saw your trip post and you had what I am going to assume poor gas mileage and the carb has become a point of interest.

User avatar

Will_Vanderburg
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:59 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: Vanderburg
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
Location: Jackson, NJ
MTFCA Number: 28382

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:27 am

There is a third diagram that goes with those two. It's a drawing of using the low speed tube clearance gauge 24-Z2390
William L Vanderburg

1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan

User avatar

Topic author
Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:04 pm

...you had what I am going to assume poor gas mileage and the carb has become a point of interest.

Not only poor mileage, but difficult starting. I took off the top plate to have a look at the fuel level and it looked like a lake in there. So now I'm working on the equipment for proper float setting on a G, including the temporary fuel source. If Murray Fahnestock's ½" setting was ever valid, I think the modern float makes it bogus, so I want to set the level by the recommended method. I may just switch to an NH until I can do that.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by DanTreace » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:27 pm

Steve

Most of that Jan 1920 Service Bulletin, on MTFCI hompage historical document tab.

http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/service_b ... sb1920.pdf
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

Topic author
Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:23 pm

Thanks, Dan. I didn't realize all the service bulletins were online in PDF. That is great. Now I wonder if anybody has the measurements for the 24-Z-2393 tool so a body could make one. I doubt that anyone is making a repop.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

AndyClary
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
First Name: Andrew
Last Name: Clary
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout 1926 Coupe. Mercury Speedster #1249
Location: Usa
MTFCA Number: 24057

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by AndyClary » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:58 pm

Steve, the fuel.level should not change with a different float. The dry level setting will change due to differences in buoyancy of the different floats, but the fuel level spec will remain the same. Example, if the float is heavier it will ride lower in the fuel giving a higher fuel.level for the same dry setting. If it was suppose to be 1/2 inch of fuel in the well, it will still be 1/2 inch. Hope this made sense.

Andy


nsbrassnut
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:30 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Lee
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by nsbrassnut » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:42 pm

Hi Steve

If you are up to it, you can also check and adjust the fuel level with the carb on the car, but it does involve crawling under to remove the bowl and float when an adjustment is needed.

Also, I the correct fuel level is much less than 1/2 in and is measured in the bottom well of the fuel jet seat. If the level is a bit too high, it will dribble out the bottom through the high level overflow tube. This tube sticks about 1/16th inch above the base of the inside of the carb body. If it gets beat or ground down the carb won't run right and may leak more.

The 1/2 inch reference is more likely the starting measurement for the distance from the flow to the body flange when it is held upside down like when the NH is checked. However this is only a starting point, the level must be set per the specification as the level in the jet bowl.
Once the engine starts, the puddles is sucked away and the jet takes over to control the spray of the fuel. The jet opening often also has opened up over time and may need be resized.

I would also recommend getting the carb rebuild guideline produced by the MTFCA. It covers the Holley G in much better detail that I can describe here. It also includes some diagrams on making the tools needed to service the carburetor.

Some previous researching on the MTFCA forum recommended the Holley G as one of the better carbs for use on the non-starter cars (it was original equipment). It also tested much better than the Kingston that was also used at the time.

It took me a while, but using the book as a guideline I rebuild my bronze body Holley G and it works well on the my '15T. And I think my mileage is better than 15, but I haven't measured it in detail yet.

Drive Safe
Jeff

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
Location: central MN
MTFCA Number: 32488
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by Duey_C » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:18 pm

Watching this closely as I have the same diagrams along with Mart's drawings but no idea where I found the diagrams...
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated

User avatar

Topic author
Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:02 am

...you can also check and adjust the fuel level with the carb on the car...

In my roadside session in Missouri I did take off the cover for a look-see with the carb in the car, but I didn't want to mess with the engine pan, so I took it out to adjust. Fahnestock's half inch refers to the distance from the flange to the top of the float, just like the ¹⁵⁄₆₄" when you set the NH float. I aim to adjust this G according to the MTFCA book, so that's on hold while I devise the little temporary fuel supply. Meanwhile the NH is back on the car so I can drive it.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


RalphS in NE Oregon
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:23 pm
First Name: Ralph
Last Name: Swinehart
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 roadster, 1914 touring, 1923 roadster, 1926 TT
Location: Enterprise, Oregon
MTFCA Number: 1386
MTFCI Number: 20289

Re: Can you ID the source of these diagrams?

Post by RalphS in NE Oregon » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:21 pm

Royce Peterson has been posting some detailed carburetor rebuilding articles on his Model T Ford Fix site. The February 25, 2018 post has very detailed info on the Holley Model G, and its adjustment after rebuilding.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic