Going to look at a 1914 T Coach

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:17 pm

So a 1914 model T Coach just popped up less than 30mi from me for a really good price. The ad says it was last running in 1994. It looks really unique..and the price is not bad. Can any brass T owners chime in with things I need to look for? If I get it...this will be my first T. I have considered picking it up to learn on and then sell or trade up later once it is running again.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:28 pm

Sounds like you have no "T" friends yet. This is a tough way to enter the hobby, but it can be done

My advice is this: reconsider

Not knowing Model Ts, Not knowing how to drive the car or operate it, and buying a non-running brass T is asking for trouble. If it was a 1919-1927 $4500 T with an electric starter, the financial damage you can do to yourself is limited. Brass cars can be misidentified, be a mix of unrelated parts, and still be offered for unrealistic prices. Unrealistic, meaning, even nicely restored, completely correct cars do not fetch much money in the overall world of antique cars.

The BEST condition, RUNNING car you can find will end up being the cheapest, by far

If you're still animated about this car, take front/rear/side photos of the car. Take photos of both sides of the engine with the hood removed. Take pictures of the front end, fairly close up. Take pictures of the rear end, overall and close up. Take pictures of the interior, including the 3 pedals on the floor...not from 10 feet away...show the details of the pedal heads...close.

Post pictures here and folks will be able to tell you roughly what it is and about how much it's worth.

Best of luck.

Post by **Humblej** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:57 pm

Be cautious. Anything advertised as a model t "coach" is highly suspect. Ford did not make a "coach", so the seller is not knowledgeable, or worse. If they do not know something as basic as the body style, they may not really know the year, or if it is actually a model t. Some people refer to all old cars as a model t. Please post some pictures, many knowledgeable folks here would love to evaluate it.

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:26 pm

Here is a link to the FB Marketplace ad.
https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item ... uery=Model t ford&mds=%2Fnt%2Fmodal%2F%3Fquery%3D%252Fmarketplace%252Fnt%252Fphoto%252F%253Fid%253D10157163789044262%26title%3D1914%2520Ford%2520Model%2520t%2520stage%2520coach&mdf=1

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:30 pm

I definitely am being cautious. When I go see the car tomorrow I will take plenty of pics and post here...hope you all are online around 2pm EST tomorrow.

Also if I can get it for 1k or less I figure it might be worth it to learn on and still be able to resell it later.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:16 pm

if this is it: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 119230694/

then there isn't much there, and even if a '14 engine, it's a toss-up if its even worth what you plan to offer.

There was no such thing as a "Stagecoach Edition" Model T, so you're dealing with an owner who know absolutely nothing about this thing (it's not a car) and maybe less about it's condition or anything else.

You could sink multiple $1,000's into this thing just to make it run, and when you do, it'll still be worth only what you originally paid.

OK, I just looked at the rest of the pix. My advice above is not strong enough...Something terribly wrong with rear axle and the frame appears home made.

Pass on it. Actually, I'd avoid it like the plague.

Parts only, and very few at that.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:24 pm

Further study of the pix and I'd say you would want to sue them for the price of gas to go look at it.

It is 100% a fantasy creation and is either horrifyingly sad or comical depending on your meds today

Keep looking.

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:25 pm

Good to know. I have to admit it does have a bit of charm...being kinda hillbilly cobbled together. I'll probably go look at it...take more detailed pics and pass on it. I appreciate the advice.

Erik Johnson · Post by **Erik Johnson** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:46 pm

Note the Essex front wheels and the non-Ford front springs.

The hood in relation to the front axle has incorrect geometry.

It's not even a Ford. Probably an Essex running gear and engine, etc.

Very crude vehicle.

Post by **DanTreace** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:52 pm

So crude, bet the termites get it first!

Actually how would one drive it, stick for control, and spindle like steering spider, no steering wheel rim!

Yard Art.

Post by **Humblej** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:58 pm

William, that is not a model t. It has a few model t parts with a lot of other manufacturers parts from various years cobbled together into a big kids go-cart. There is no evidence from the pictures that there is actually a model t engine in there.

If the radiator has not been molested it could be worth $100-$300 depending on year and condition. Ford radiators have a manufacturers tag with a year soldered or stamped on the back side.

If you want a model t ford, keep looking, this aint one.

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:13 pm

Yeah...def not going to buy it. Just going to look at it out of curiosity and get more detailed pics and post for forum entertainment.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:35 pm

Oh, dear!

Scott is being too kind.

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:22 pm

I HATE HATE HATE facebook! SOMETIMES I would like to see something posted there. BUT I CAN"T! Between the way their gamers rig their programming, and my not-quite-a-DSL barely twice a dial-up speed, I cannot get anything anymore to load and be viewable. Why the mindless gamers of the world think facebook is God's greatest gift to modern communication is DISGUSTING!
And it has been a horrible week besides.

My apologies. Maybe someone can put a few pictures here so that I may see this abomination?

Post by **FreighTer Jim** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:24 pm

Yard Art

As being displayed now

If you have a use for unique yard art ....

FJ

Post by **DHort** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:34 pm

Here you go Wayne.

Post by **Susanne** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:30 pm

What in the... ???

Um. No. make that NO.

Let's see... it's a pile of parts someone threw together to make something they could somehow sell. As a something. Like a bunch of car parts mushed together to make... something.

It's been a LONG time since I saw a $100 collection of car parts... this almost makes it to that point.

Sorry... Not quite sure what it's supposed to be. But anything authentic...

Post by **Mark Gregush** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:50 pm

Model T Essex hi bred. If it runs and drives would be fun to play with as long as you know what you are getting. If you were buying as a T, not!

Burger in Spokane · Post by **Burger in Spokane** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 pm

Not my cup of meat, but there is at least one regular poster here that likes
this kind of "Beverly Hillbillies" "thing.

A Whiteman · Post by **A Whiteman** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:33 pm

Hi William,

Welcome to the hobby!! T driving is fun and you do meet the nicest people

Thanks for posting here and asking - that is a good thing to do.

Please look around for the nearest T club in your area and join in a run or two. I am sure you will be allowed to have a supervised drive if you ask nicely too!.

All the best and don't be discouraged - keep looking.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:50 pm

For Wayne and anybody else without access, here are more photos.

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Post by **Steve Jelf** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:53 pm

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Post by **Steve Jelf** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:56 pm

: 13.jpg (16.71 KiB) Viewed 11092 times

: 14.jpg (26.71 KiB) Viewed 11092 times

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I could have made them bigger, but I don't think that would have made it look any better.

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:22 am

Thank you Dave H, and Steve J. I do prefer to be able to see "things" that people are talking about. And I do see maybe a couple hundred dollars worth of parts there, IF they didn't ruin things like the fenders by the bad mounting work.
Just like all you good people said. Yard art, a bunch of bits and pieces cobbled together make a what????

And William B, Welcome to the affliction! You can find a lot of wonderful people in this hobby to help steer you in good directions. As others suggested, try to find a model T club near you. You won't likely have anyone try to beat you out a "find". Most of us already have more junk and projects than we know what to do with. Don't listen to just one person. Talk to several local hobbyists, and then you can make an informed decision that is right for you.

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:03 am

Thanks all for the advice. Pretty much not buying this at the sellers price. While I understand it is a cobbled together thing...I do appreciate the ingenuity...and have seen pre 30s cars customized in many ways. I will still be going to look at it...but now armed with a bit more knowledge. I would only be interested in it as something to learn on for a couple hundred. That would be it's only real value to me. As to T clubs near me there is one in SC and there is an A club in Augusta with a few T owners. I've been lurking on MTFCA since before the new site transition.

As for this "car" ...I will get more pics of the engine since there are none. Not buying it unless the price is worth it.

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:30 am

Wonder what’s under the hood of the Model T Coach. A T Coach engine?
Very suspect in not posting any engine pics to begin with. I would pass on this and not look back.

Post by **Will_Vanderburg** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:06 am

None of you have convinced this guy to not buy this thing. He's still going to look at it with a chance of buying it to "learn" on.

For the love of God, just don't go. Period.

Erik Johnson · Post by **Erik Johnson** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:20 am

I disagree.

It's always a good idea to take a look.

First of all, there might be something on that wreck that is actually worth something.

Also, the seller may have other items of interest that he may be willing to sell.

You don't know until you get there.

Post by **dobro1956** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:59 pm

I agree with Erik. Going to look does not hurt.if you go as informed as possible. There is no telling what was used to build that car with. It could have a ruxtel in it. There could be a real 1914 engine in it. The person who built it may just have used what was in "grandpas old barn" it may actually have been a running car in the 1990s. ??? No one has seen what may (or may not) lurk under that hood. Yes it may be a pile of crap. But it may not be. I can not really give a good answer to him with the photos shown. If it could be made to run , and could be bought for a few hundred dollars or so, that could be a cheap learning experiancel. So I'm hoping for some good pictures to see what the "fraidy cats" were afraid to look at. Then we .ca give him a good answer what it is worth, or is it all junk. Some of my very best finds were in piles just like this.

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:36 pm

Well he marked it sold....not sure if he thought I was just coming to buy it without looking deeper. But I msgd the seller saying I was gonna pass and keep looking. No response yet.

Post by **RustyFords** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:53 pm

WBowie wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:36 pm
Well he marked it sold....not sure if he thought I was just coming to buy it without looking deeper. But I msgd the seller saying I was gonna pass and keep looking. No response yet.

Count your blessings. Whatever the he** that thing was...it was a mess.

You did a smart thing by posting here though. As you keep looking, take a bunch of photos of prospects and post them here. This group will give you good advice.

A Whiteman · Post by **A Whiteman** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:15 pm

It's always a good idea to take a look.
First of all, there might be something on that wreck that is actually worth something.
Also, the seller may have other items of interest that he may be willing to sell.
You don't know until you get there.

Ahh, I think like you too

Wayne Sheldon · Post by **Wayne Sheldon** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:46 pm

This one reminds me of a very similar vehicle I looked at a couple times almost fifty years ago. So, as I comment about its price, remember, Ts and parts were a LOT cheaper back then. And, coincidentally, it also was part Essex.
What that thing was, was a delivery truck, built probably during the depression by someone that needed a delivery truck and had little money, but time and/or friends able to do some nice work for very cheap. The main frame, engine and front end was model T. There was a rear part of a frame bolted on, with a '10s Overland transaxle rear end and transmission. cobbled onto a T rear spring, with T 21 inch wheels fit onto the Overland hubs. The front fenders, hood, radiator shell, and front half of the body was from an Essex two-door sedan, including both front folding seats. The back half of the body was nicely built wood framing attached behind the Essex doors onto what remained of the Essex door pillars, with the remains of a type of hard paper-board paneling, most of which had disintegrated years earlier. It was an interesting bit of history, someone making do with what they had. But it really wasn't in a condition to be worth very much at all.
I saw an ad for the thing, asking $75 for it. I called, and went to look at it. When I arrived, he had just sold it. So I gave it a quick once-over. Figured it was worth the $75 for the engine and some other model T parts (complete '20s T engines could be had in those days for $25, so it was barely worth $75 total).
About two months later, another ad, different phone number and location, now $150. I called, went to look at it, same "truck". Talked to the new owner, told him I could go to $100, but no more. He declined. Another couple months, and another ad, with another phone number. Now, it was $300. I called, sure enough, same rolling pile. A few months later, again, new owner, same "truck", now, believe it or not, $650. To put this in perspective, less than two years earlier, I had bought the '29 Reo coupe that I drove to high school, for $400. There were several rough but running and tourable model TS for sale locally for around $500, and nice model Ts could be bought for a bit under a thousand. I had to go look. It was just the same. And he sold it for his $650. I never confirmed it. But about a year later, I talked with someone at a swap meet that said it sold yet another time, for $900.
I can honestly say, that I hope one of those nuts restored the thing back to its depression era creation. At least that way it would have some real historic value. It certainly was not worth anywhere near that much for all the parts. I figured the Overland transaxle was the most valuable piece in the whole thing. As it happened, I knew two people with mid '10s Overlands, and I had called them to see if they had any serious interest in buying the rear transaxle. They both already had spares, and said they would consider it for about $50.

If this current "pile" did sell, I wonder what may become of it? It looks a lot worse than the one I kept finding.

WBowie · Post by **WBowie** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:42 pm

Final update on this. I did not buy it. Will keep looking for a better prospect...preferably 26-27 T Touring.

Brent Teltow · Post by **Brent Teltow** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:32 pm

Be patient, keep looking you will find one. I was talking with Mr.Potter awhile back about my barn find, he told me "son you get 2 barn finds in your lifetime ". To funny.... but probably true. Good luck to you.

Post by **Mark Gregush** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:03 pm

Do brier patches count against the barn finds? LOL

I have one that came out of a barn and the other was dug out of brier patch by the guy I got it from.

Brent Teltow · Post by **Brent Teltow** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:42 pm

I think you have one more left Mark, LOL.

Post by **Henry K. Lee** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:43 pm

Hey Ya'll, we in dim dar hills and hollars don't dew dim dar tangs like dat!

"Beverly Hillbillies" come on Burger, I resemble that remark! LOL

"Meds" come on Scott, have you been looking in my cabinet? LOL

Misrepresentation I have no love for either,

Hank

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:51 pm

Hank

I just saw a great interview of Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert comic strip. He stated, "My opinion is, when you're young, stay away from drugs...when you're 50, your Dr. ought to give them away for free, and if you make it to 80, and you want LSD, mushrooms or whatever, you should be able to take whatever you want".

So, where are you along the Dilbert scale?

Aarongriffey · Post by **Aarongriffey** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:58 pm

Why isn’t the front axle directly under the radiator?
Is it coach or couch?

Aarongriffey · Post by **Aarongriffey** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:04 pm

So the coaches had some wheels the 12 bolt hubs while some had six?
Very rare car like that could be worth fifty bucks. Especially if it has at motor n transmission.

Post by **Henry K. Lee** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:14 pm

Scott, 9.5 out of 10, I am happy and that is all that matters to me!