Transmission Disaster avoided
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Transmission Disaster avoided
Towards the end of the season last year I had to adjust the low pedal band several times had a feeling something was up.
Will post more as I progress.
Will post more as I progress.
-
- Posts: 2292
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
- First Name: George
- Last Name: House
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
- Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
- MTFCA Number: 115
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Disaster avoided
WHAAA...?...assuming you have a Canadian T
(as I see by your RH steering column); were the manifolds really on the left side of the engine ??
(as I see by your RH steering column); were the manifolds really on the left side of the engine ??
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.
-
- Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
“Selfie” mode does that!!
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Yup selfie mode I didn't realize it reversed it.
-
- Posts: 4355
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
- MTFCI Number: 15411
- Board Member Since: 2001
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
What band lining you running ?
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Give you one guess.
OK Kevlar, For the last 7 or 8000 miles Since rebuild. It was my 1st transmission rebuilt I did Not have it Magnifluxed But did clean up look it over and then do the thinner test looking for cracks. Could have missed them Before they grew or could have caused them.
OK Kevlar, For the last 7 or 8000 miles Since rebuild. It was my 1st transmission rebuilt I did Not have it Magnifluxed But did clean up look it over and then do the thinner test looking for cracks. Could have missed them Before they grew or could have caused them.
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Almost 12 Hours after Discovering the cracks have it ready to pull transmission apart. Will have to wait for another day.
-
- Posts: 1278
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
- First Name: Mack
- Last Name: Cole
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT. T express pickup,speedster project.
- Location: North Carolina
- MTFCA Number: 28146
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
I doubt seriously you missed both of those cracks when you rebuilt it.Something happened in that 7000 miles probably
Just looking and thinking,you wouldn't need to remove the trans from the engine to replace the drums would you?
Just looking and thinking,you wouldn't need to remove the trans from the engine to replace the drums would you?
Last edited by tdump on Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Thomas, you should really consider looking for a better transmission. Pitting on both brake and reverse is too severe for me to consider putting into anything of mine ...I'd start searching with a WTB ad in the PARTS forum.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 6495
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
- Contact:
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Lots of fuzz to clean out. Be sure your engine oil line is clear.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
-
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: van Ekeren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
- Location: Rosedale Vic Australia
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
It gets in everything, can block the oil holes in the mains and even get all tangled up in the oil rings.
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
I have 5 other transmission Sets to look through hopefully I will find good drums with those.Yes there was fuzz everywhere Amazingly somehow the internal oil line was still clear the mag most oiler was plugged up.I will remove transmission leaving flywheel on engine,Everything else looks good was a good runner good compression will probably check bearing Clearances while I have it apart.
-
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:50 pm
- First Name: Bob
- Last Name: Benner
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT 1924, touring 22
- Location: East Setauket, NY
- MTFCA Number: 52622
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Hi Tom,
Looks like you’ve been busy!
Looks like you’ve been busy!
-
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Kuehn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
- Location: Texas
- MTFCA Number: 28924
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
You might already know this but when replacing a cracked drum with with another one good used drum can sometimes cause a noisy transmission. Not always but sometimes. It happened to me after I had rebuilt T transmissions over time with no major noise issues. I had read about it here on this forum but no issues until the last one.
Its probably best to replace with with a set instead of individually but that’s up to the individually.
In my case I had used a low speed cracked drum with a ‘good’ drum that after looking closely had a very slight worn drum gear. It looked to me that it was ‘worn’ about the same as the other good drums but what a difference it can make as far as noise goes!
It had a whine that wasent all that bad but I went ahead and found another that was a better match and quieter. All OK now but maybe I got lucky.
Its probably best to replace with with a set instead of individually but that’s up to the individually.
In my case I had used a low speed cracked drum with a ‘good’ drum that after looking closely had a very slight worn drum gear. It looked to me that it was ‘worn’ about the same as the other good drums but what a difference it can make as far as noise goes!
It had a whine that wasent all that bad but I went ahead and found another that was a better match and quieter. All OK now but maybe I got lucky.
-
- Posts: 4094
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
The bluish color of the drum is a key that the band has been dragging. This is usually caused by a worn notch and cam on the low pedal shaft. This is what happens. You have to tighten the low band too tight in order to get the band to lock before the pedal hits the floor board. So the band drags all the time you are in neutral, high, or reverse. It only stops dragging when the band is tight in low gear. That continual drag overheats the drum which gives it the blue color. eventually the drum cracks. So even if you replace all the drums and get new bands you will still have the same problem until you replace the notch and cam. I know this from experience after breaking two drums on the same car. I have not had that problem since I replaced the shaft, cam and notch.
Norm
Norm
-
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm
- First Name: Larry
- Last Name: Rutt
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 fordor
- Location: Ephrata pa
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
On the top picture looks how worn smooth the low speed drum is..maybe indicating a significant drag ?
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
The color of the drum in the photo is misleading it is Not blue Just shinier than the rest because it gets the most use, reverse Drum not so much brake drum not at all. When I got the car it had Rocky Mountain brakes installed and the Ford transmission brake was not used. I know there is opinions pro and con to this practice But so far it's worked out well. When I rebuilt the motor and transmission I left it that way the only thing I changed was putting lined emergency Brake shoes on So that when stopped Uphill it would still hold. Can't always count on those rocky's holding backwards. Cam and notch Where replaced when I rebuilt it and still look fine whenever I adjusted the band I always made sure that I had a free neutral If the band was too tight I would not be able to roll the car back-and-forth by hand due band drag, I think would someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that point. In the warmer months I use the car pretty regularly and I am thinking Due to too much slippage When I put the car away, I keep it in a cargo trailer sometimes I probably slipped the low band too much going up the ramp.
Last edited by L.I. Tom on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Yeah Bob it's been a busy Winter just discovered this yesterday don't know If it's possible but going to try to get it together for the Westhampton Saint Patrick's day parade in 2 weeks I think. Wish me luck.
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
I know it could get noisy with a drum change but I will hope for the best. I have at 1st glance what I think is a nice looking set of drums from a later model transmission can anyone tell me for shore I believe they are the same as the earlier low and reverse drums Or are there differences.
-
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
- First Name: Michael
- Last Name: Deichmann
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1921 Roadster P/U, 1922 Fordor (danish custom body)
- Location: Rågeleje, Denmark
- MTFCA Number: 29116
- Board Member Since: 2007
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Make sure the bands are actually round so that all the movement goes to press towards the drum, and not make it fit the drum. If not round it will also drag somewhat. I used a roller to make it true round.
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils
-
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:46 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Gulbankian
- Location: Massachusetts
- Contact:
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
The Low speed and reverse are the same throughout the Model T years.L.I. Tom wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:46 pmI know it could get noisy with a drum change but I will hope for the best. I have at 1st glance what I think is a nice looking set of drums from a later model transmission can anyone tell me for shore I believe they are the same as the earlier low and reverse drums Or are there differences.
Your pictoral example is the reason why we started making and selling drums.
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Really nice looking stuff, John
Thanks for making them.
Thanks for making them.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
John they are beautiful I have seen them, one day I believe I will own a set but not yet. Thank you for the info on the high and low drum application.
-
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 pm
- First Name: Jeff
- Last Name: Hood
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Touring, 1923 Fordor, 1924 Martin Parry Canopy Express, 1925 Coupe
- Location: Long Beach, CA.
- MTFCA Number: 25636
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Check everything in the engine! One of our club members had a cracked drum with Kevlar and in addition to the fuzz there was a sandy/gritty substance everywhere, in all the bearings, and even in the rings. Had to completely disassemble and clean the engine.
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Norman you are absolutely right and I was wrong My apologies. Here are some photos it got hot at some point I'm thinking probably Slipping it when I'm going up into my trailer. Here are a few pictures
-
- Posts: 5256
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
I don't follow that the first gear drum gets most use. In proper use, there is band slippage only until the band is clamped to engage bottom gear fully.
The brake band however, slips constantly under varying loads, unless the back wheels are locked up! The brake band is also used more frequently than the first gear bands
It is nice to replace the brake drum and driven plate from the same source, as the outer edge of the driven plate forms part of the braking surface It is rare that two components from different sources match, causing a step in the braking surface.
Hope it turns out well. Allan from down under.
The brake band however, slips constantly under varying loads, unless the back wheels are locked up! The brake band is also used more frequently than the first gear bands
It is nice to replace the brake drum and driven plate from the same source, as the outer edge of the driven plate forms part of the braking surface It is rare that two components from different sources match, causing a step in the braking surface.
Hope it turns out well. Allan from down under.
-
Topic author - Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:20 am
- First Name: Thomas
- Last Name: Pilz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 roadster, 1923 roadster pickup
- Location: Manorville, NewYork
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Put together some decent drums with no cracks, new Bushings where needed cleaned up the gunk putting her back together.
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Good for you
make sure your bands are R-O-U-N-D
make sure your bands are R-O-U-N-D
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:17 pm
- First Name: Terry
- Last Name: Horlick
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster Pickup "Mountain Patrol vehicle" from Los Angeles City Fire Department and a 1912 Model T omnibus restoration project
- Location: Penn Valley, CA
- MTFCA Number: 50510
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
Thomas, I don’t understand your title “Transmission disaster avoided”. It seems you have hit the all to frequent Kevlar disaster. Once you’ve replaced the low drum and flushed out the Kevlar remnants do you plan on installing a different lining material?
TH
TH
Terry Horlick, Penn Valley, CA
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
-
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:26 am
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Weitzel
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe,23 touring 14 speedster WILD CHERRY 2 1909 touring 27 roaster
- Location: Newcastle california
- MTFCA Number: 22631
- Board Member Since: 2015
Re: Transmission Disaster avoided
You better check low band knotch. Ive ran kevlars for years. I find if you have to ajust them more often than not its the knotch