Hogshead external oil line

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ifrichard
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Hogshead external oil line

Post by ifrichard » Fri May 22, 2020 7:58 pm

My 1926 touring has an external line from the hogshead to the front pan. It goes through a hole in the pan flange through the gasket and into a threaded hole near the front camshaft bearing. When air is blown into this hole it does not come out anywhere that I can tell. Can someone explain this oiling feature?

I have uploaded a photo.
Blocked threaded hole below camshaft
Blocked threaded hole below camshaft
Richard

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DanTreace
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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by DanTreace » Fri May 22, 2020 9:07 pm

If that outside oiler is the common magneto fitting outside oiler, then the tubing from the mag contact on the hogshead should run to a special hollow bolt replacing one of the cylinder front cover bolts.

That special bolt will flow the oil into the front of the crankcase on the driver's side.

outside oiler.jpg
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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by Scottio » Fri May 22, 2020 11:23 pm

I have an oil line coming off the same place and I get nothing out of it. No oil at all. The line and fittings are all clear but even with the engine running and the line removed I get nothing. Just saying it MAY be a waste of time.


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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri May 22, 2020 11:27 pm

If you're waiting for oil to come OUT of that hole in the front, it's going to be a long wait.
Scott Conger

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by ifrichard » Sat May 23, 2020 12:41 am

I should have said Transmission cover. It seems that the connection is of no value. I should cap it off at the transmission cover, remove the connector at the front of the pan and use the hole in the pan for a bolt to this blind hole.

Richard
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External connection at pan
External connection at pan
Transmission cover
Transmission cover


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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by ifrichard » Sat May 23, 2020 12:45 am

Forgot to say that the motor has the internal oil tube:
Internal Oiler
Internal Oiler


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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat May 23, 2020 8:18 am

Richard

until this last posting with pictures, I assumed you were in error when you pointed to the hole in your first posting. Yes, for all practical purposes this is a blind hole. The last guy just wasn't getting the big picture. That fitting goes where Dan showed...front top edge of motor.

As for no flow. Some mag post oilers flow oil, some don't, and those that don't can be modified for much better flow. They DO have value, and in an instance of a car I bought once, as it turned out, the interior line was plugged with cotton band material and the outside oiler was the only thing saving the motor.

That said, it's your choice, but a properly working, properly installed, outside oiler is a good thing on a T.

Welcome to the hobby.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat May 23, 2020 10:26 am

When you say the air doesn't seem to go anywhere, do you mean it blows back at you or can you hear it coming out in the casting?
True that hole ends in line with the side mounting bolt, but the builder may have drilled a hole from the inside of the casting to where the bolt that mounts to pan rail is. With the generator off the car as it looks to be, turn the lights off and shine a flashlight thru the hole. If a hole was drilled you should be able to see light inside the casting. With the type of oil pickup that is shown, the oil line would have to be on the passenger side and come in somewhere over there. If the casting was opened up, seems that it would be a workable solution to were to mount the line if didn't have shoe that mounted to bottom of pan or a fitting in the side of same.
I have a Sure-feed that have been wanting to mount but don't have the shoe and don't want to mess around with pulling the engine to plumb in a fitting in on the side. Pulling the generator and that casting is a lot more doable at this time. Even if it did leak a little, almost would have to be less or about the same as the shoe type that is mounted to inspection cover on bottom of pan.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by RajoRacer » Sat May 23, 2020 11:09 am

I also use Ford Faithful oilers & this is what I changed out the bottom footplate to.
Attachments
oiler fitting.JPG

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by jsaylor » Sat May 23, 2020 12:08 pm

That first picture, the front main bearing looks like its way off center or is it just the angle of the camera.


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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by ifrichard » Sat May 23, 2020 12:35 pm

Here is a new photo: With the generating mounting bolt remove and my finger covering the generator casting bolt hole, the air goes into the timing gear area. Note the relieved bolt that may have been intended to allow the oil to pass through. I blew out the holes with the bolt removed (no dirt came out). When I replaced the generator bolt, the air was again blocked. This may have been a "good idea" that never worked.
Bolt removed
Bolt removed
The wide angle of the camera makes the front main look off center. When I cropped the photo, it lost the correct perspective.

I like RajoRacer's solution as it is on the right side of the engine which matches my transmission cover.

Richard

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat May 23, 2020 1:58 pm

I did some looking, while there is a way this could be done, doesn't look like it was. Someone dropped the ball because they didn't study it too much. Steve when you did yours, did you add a tube inside to direct the oil to the gears in front?
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by RajoRacer » Sat May 23, 2020 2:11 pm

No - it drops right into #1 rod trough.

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat May 23, 2020 2:17 pm

Ok thanks, just wondering and thinking out loud. ;)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by George House » Sat May 23, 2020 2:38 pm

IMHO, the best and easiest to install outside Oiler is the one described and pictured in Dan Trease’s Post. I’ve got ‘em on all my T s and every Model T I’ve previously had. On the last install I cut out about 8” of copper tubing and replaced with clear plastic tubing. Sure enough; that flywheel splash system is awesome. At an idle, oil was pouring down to the front main bearing then into the #1 rod trough.
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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by Retro54 » Sat May 23, 2020 10:33 pm

Does anyone have a good source for the special front bolt? I have an accessory mag post. Thank you in advance!
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20200523_223315.jpg

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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by DanTreace » Sat May 23, 2020 11:00 pm

Lang's Antique Auto Parts sells that hollow bolt as replacement part.

30EF8265-6869-4925-9F80-8E8C28A1F68F_4_5005_c.jpeg
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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by OilyBill » Sun May 24, 2020 12:01 am

I'm thinking that someone put the oiler tube in, and either didn't finish the installation correctly, by replacing the front solid bolt with the hollow one, OR, they did it correctly, but someone later on may have not known the intention of the oil mod, and at some time, put a solid bolt back in the position of the the hollow bolt, thus negating it's usefulness.


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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by jiminbartow » Sun May 24, 2020 2:03 pm

Mine force feeds oil from the hogshead through a 3/8” tube through the side of the engine block so that the oil is fed to the front half of the engine between the 1st and 2nd cylinders flooding the front crank shaft bearings, pushrod bearings and cam shaft bearings. Very efficient. Jim Patrick
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846A2E2B-AAA2-4A77-B3C7-5E103E88E359.jpeg


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Re: Hogshead external oil line

Post by ifrichard » Sun May 24, 2020 2:12 pm

I now understand. My T has 3 front oil connections:
1) The internal aluminum tube.
2) The external blocked one that we have been discussing from the cover to the front.
3) and the one that I forgot about that goes from the hogshead to the front as shown in this photo.
Correct External Front Engine Oiler
Correct External Front Engine Oiler
Thanks to all of you for your help.
Richard

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