Axle thrust washers

[JamesD]

I was digging through some rear end parts and came across a couple of thrust washers. One was a ball bearing type, obviously aftermarket. Has anyone used one of these before in a rebuild? the others were the "babbit" washers. one in very good condition, and the other very poor. The better looking one is considerably harder than the poor one when tested with a file. I have no intention of using them, but I was wondering if there were different alloys used in the Model T era, or if one of them is possibly an aftermarket thrust washer? I know they are notoriously unreliable but maybe there was some experimentation during the run of Model Ts. has anyone else run into this?

[Steve Jelf]

I have found one intact thrust washer, and large pieces of a few others. Not enough to compare among them. Usually they're in tiny pieces.

I don't recall ever seeing that ball bearing type. Choosing between twenty moving pieces and one piece, I would go with the latter. It has proven quite adequate over many years.

[Kerry]

Parts books list early as babbitt, then mid teens as composition, then a change to metal. I have a pile of them from rebuilds, I should trash them but The later ones seem to be made of some sort of pot metal, they are the ones that fall apart easy.
I forgot to mention, for a short time around 1915 Ford used bronze ones as well.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I like the common bronze original or replacement ones. Millions of model Ts and hundreds of millions of miles cannot be wrong!

As for the the "Babbitt" washers? Their material composition changed often, probably almost from one batch to the next. After most of a century, none are reliable, and all are suspect. They may have been okay when they were only a few years old, at low speeds, on quiet back roads? But today? No.
I have told the story many times. Fifty years ago, my first speedster. I took the good advice from good friends, and decided to change the original composition washers to brass (bronze!) washers in the car I was putting together. The rear end was already together and painted, but I took it apart and changed them anyway. I had a work area in my parent's back yard, way in the back. One of the original washers was showing its age already (remember, they were less than fifty years old at that time!). The other one was the cleanest, most shiny, smooth, and hard Babbitt washer I have ever seen before or since! While I was cleaning up after the job was done, I had a double handful of tools, parts and miscellaneous walking back toward the garage, fully intending to hang that beautiful Babbitt washer onto a nail in the wall as a sort of trophy. And then I stumbled in a gopher hole. I squeezed my fingers oh so slightly to hang onto the bunch of stuff in my hand, and that solid looking Babbitt washer broke into three pieces. It was then I knew for sure. No matter how nice one looks, no matter how solid it seems? They cannot be trusted. Not with your life.

Since then? I have seen other nice ones come out of rear ends in pieces. Even inside that cozy grease filled sandwich inside? They break.

[Alan Long]

I’m with Steve.
The idea of having loose ball bearings floating around inside my rear axle assembly
are things nightmares are made of. Ideal for the display cabinet.
Replacement one piece Bronze for me!
Alan 8n Western Australia

[TXGOAT2]

Pot metal is brittle. Babbit is malleable. Some types of pot metal will decay over time even if they are NOS parts in the original box. Babbit will not decay. I suspect that pot metal washers in rear axles may decay due to sulfur in the gear oil. I would not use any babbit washer, since it is now impossible to know if it is made from the correct type of babbit to give good service. Pot metal in this application was never a good idea, and I would not use even NOS pot metal washers in original Ford packaging. They are known to decay over time, and may look OK and still be in no condition to use.

[Dan Hatch]

Here is a link to a thread about the ball bearing ones.
https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=29939

[Scott_Conger]

Dan, those in your link look very nice in my display cabinet!

thank you