OPS!! dropped a washer!

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Beaver1054
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OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:33 pm

Dumb mistake, First time "T" owner doing and learning how to do maintenance on my Model T.
While learning to drive my "NEW", (104 old) model T I noticed my brakes were almost to the floor.
I read up on them and adjusted them, noticed how thin the lining was on my brake drum.
My "T" is a 1915 (according to Title) but the engine is from the 1920.
I have removed all three linings. Not sure what lining to use, cotton-Kevlar or wood as replacement.

Anyway getting to my problem, I dropped a washer into the oil pan.
Do I hope for the best and hope its made its way to the bottom, ( have no Magnets on the flywheel) and forget it.
What is recommend?
Thanks STeve


Shane Lach
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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Shane Lach » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:39 pm

I just dropped one in last week. Remove it for sure. I snuck a boroscope down the front starter opening and located it at the bottom of the pan. Then chased a flexible copper wand magnet right along the cameras path and grabbed it that way. You San drain the oil and use a hammer on the outside of the pan to tap the washer to the bottom

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Ruxstel24 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:41 pm

Steve, you GOT to find the washer !!
Maybe you could get lucky with a flexible magnet. Otherwise the hogshead will have to come off. (Assuming you have quick change bands).
I suppose band material is a personal preference...I run cotton with cork inserts.


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Shane Lach » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:42 pm



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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Dallas Landers » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:44 pm

Time to go fishing! Look for other posts on this subject. IMHO it needs to come out. It can do untold damage if flung around inside.
Some have had sucess with a flexible magnet while others remove hogshead or engine to retrieve parts lost to the black depths of the T transmission. I tie dental floss on nuts and washers while working in trans. Also I stuff rags into all spaces around drums as a second saftey measure. Oh dont forget to remove the key from ignition. Hope you find it fast so your back on the road. Happy hunting.


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:18 pm

Thanks for the replies,
I'll do more fishing with a flexible magnet.
I will be draining the oil and use a mallet to possibly work the washer to the bottom.
I'm running a distributor so I have no magnets to pick up the washer.
I don't know but I wouldn't think normal oil flow would be powerful enough to pick up the washer and move it.
Am I wrong to assume it will just stay at the bottom?
Thanks Again


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Don Conklin » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:27 pm

If your engine does not have a mag. plate you can get pretty good access by removing the inspection cover from the bottom of the oil pan. It's messy but it worked for me.

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Ruxstel24
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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Ruxstel24 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:34 pm

Beaver1054 wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:18 pm

Am I wrong to assume it will just stay at the bottom?
Usually without magnets on the flywheel, there’s a type of paddles installed in place and yes, it churns the oil still....gears and drums still spinning in there too.
Not worth the risk of a catastrophic failure over a washer.

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by kelly mt » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:50 pm

Bolt Rescue 2.jpg
This is how I got the screw out of my trans. The bore scope plugs into the computer USB port. I could not get an angle to grab the screw except through that screw hole. A magnet couldn't get it.
Attachments
Bolt Rescue 3.jpg

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by cudaman » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:15 pm

You must get the washer out, don't take a risk leaving it in there.

I once dropped a band spring down into the depths of the transmission, here is how a friend and I got it out.

I removed the oil drain plug, drained the oil, and fished around with a magnet tipped flexible wand through the oil drain hole until I felt the magnet touch the spring (I actually felt the spring click onto the magnet).

Then, I pushed the wand with the spring attached upwards until my friend could see the spring from above through the inspection cover opening.

Then, with the magnetic wand holding the spring in the position where it could be seen from above, I reached down from above with a two-pronged wand, gripped the spring, and pulled it out from above.

Good luck! :)
Mark Strange
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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Wayne Mims » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:02 pm

Dropped washer topic I dropped my first washer in a Model T engine 40 years ago hopefully my last 3 months ago Harbor Freight sells a flexible magnet if you have the magnets out in the coil ring out this magnet will slide down around the sides and if you fish long enough you will pick up your washer you can also take the starter out and fish in down through there you'll find it happy model T Inn


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:16 pm

Don't we all do this our freshman year?

Hank

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Angmar » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:42 pm

I did years ago, spent 2 hours fishing around with a flexible magnet until I was able to move it close to the bottom of the pan, it just dropped out the drain plug hole. Ever since I pack rags in both sides and I take my time. Makes a guy sweat hard when it happens.
Still crankin old iron


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Susanne » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:46 pm

At least. :shock: Also I think it's part of the annual refresher for your T certification, and a required subject in your post grad T operator degree. My dad (rest his soul) showed me it could be done (on our '15 roadster, also sans-magnets) then dropped a nut down there and made me fish it out. Heck of a learning experience. Patience is your friend. And failure is not an option.

Since you have no magnets on your flywheel you can probably maybe go on a fishing expedition in the bottom of your pan with an extendable magnet. Last time I did it I figured it was time to change oil anyway, so I drained it down - made it easier not swimming in a pool of oil.

But yes, you HAVE to get it out of there. It gets into your transmision, you're going to be hurting for a long time over something shich could have ended far easier than a teardown. Good luck, and enjoy your post-grad courses.

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by RustyFords » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:40 am

Henry K. Lee wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:16 pm
Don't we all do this our freshman year?

Hank
I would've except I took the dental floss advice to heart. It saved me 4 dropped washers. All I had to do was pull them out with the floss.
1924 Touring


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by It's Bill » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:47 am

When this happened to me, somehow the ignition key got dropped in there. Oh no, it is made of brass, and a magnet was no use. Harbor freight bore scope and a wire with a blob of sticky goo on it saved my bacon. Good luck, Bill


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by DickC » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:13 am

After years of T maintenance, I did it too. My son was with me and made a great suggestion. He took a strip of magnet "rope" out of an old refrigerator door and slid it down one side of the transmission door. Moving it slowly back and forth it took less than five minutes to retrieve the washer. Since then I found that body shops use mag strips to line up pin stripping. It is easily available and won't effect "mamas refrigerator" as much.

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by John Warren » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:01 am

Dick, Did you tell your son he was a God Da__ Genius. What a great Idea!! Thanks
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Beaver1054 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:30 am

You guys have been great with ideas,
I have some magnetic tape, never thought of using it.
The tape is used on magnetic advertisement signs.
Drained the oil today so I'm going fishing.
Thanks!!

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by TonyB » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:46 pm

Don’t run it with a washer in the motor because this is the result when a customer did that for 30 minutes☹️
9A5601DA-D01C-46D3-A9C0-BC8CFFB81FB5.jpeg
F5271C6F-01CC-4E3D-A8D7-7021DD75BA60.jpeg
Notice the missing magnets
The pan had to welded and the hogs head had two cracks☹️
Tony Bowker
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1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:03 pm

Do not doubt Tony when he says an errant washer can cause this cascade of damage. It can and will.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:53 pm

(((((( Found IT ))))))))

Used a wand magnet, didn't work, Used an inspection scope, didn't work.

Finally decided to remove the hogs head and there it was, stuck on the fly wheel magnet.
I didn't know the magnets were left installed when the prior owner switched to a distributor.
Glad I checked because I found an additional washer in the oil tube funnel. Looked like it had already been
run though the gears. It looks like the lock washer for the starter spring bendix bolts.
If it wasn't for you guys insistence to remove it, I was tempted to leave it and cross my fingers.
Now clean up and re-assemble
Thanks everybody!! :D


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:59 pm

Good for you, and thank you for updating the forum of your success.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:01 pm

Quick Question,
My engine has no magneto installed, anyone know if I can/should remove the magnets off the fly wheel also?
I'm concerned about any weight imbalance. It would make the main bearings carry less of a load.
Thanks Again!!


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Joe Reid » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 pm

Magnets on the flywheel and a field coil on the back of the engine block are the magneto. You just don’t use it with the distributor.

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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Ruxstel24 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:17 pm

The magnets are a vital part of the oiling system.
They can be removed, but you must put a set of oil slinger blades in place to circulate the oil.
Pros and cons to a lightened flywheel...


Autie
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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Autie » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:41 pm

Word to the wise, the magnets are a safety feature to keep the triple gear pins from backing out. You should have a collar in the place of the magnets. Dan McEarchen makes them.


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Re: OPS!! dropped a washer!

Post by Beaver1054 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:32 pm

Thanks. point taken

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