Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

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Original Smith
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Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:21 pm

I've been mounting Model T clincher tires all of my adult life, and have never had a problem until this past week. There are several factors that come into play here. The tire is new, but has been sitting around for several years. I have mounted the tire twice, but have been unable to close the bead at the valve stem. I can remember over 50+ years ago having to cut a V notch in each side of the tire where the valve stem goes. I haven't had to do that since, and have worn out several sets of tires without a V notch. For my third try, I have cut a V notch in the tire, about 1/2" wide at the top. One of our younger members suggested putting the tire in a black plastic trash bag in the sun. That will probably help too, along with all the usual things, like talcum powder. The last thing I wish to discuss is the rubber mallet I use. It belonged to my father before me, and I believe it's time for a replacement. I have a new Proto mallet on order, and will pick it up in the morning.


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Adam » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:34 pm

Start at the valve stem and finish up 180 degrees from it. If you use a good, new rim flap, it’s much easier.


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by SurfCityGene » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:44 pm

Larry, Bring that tire and rim over to Wilmington Instrument tomorrow where several of the LBMTC will be meeting and I'll mount that tire for you!
This is close to you on 332 Fries Ave. in Wilmington. I'll bring my motorcycle tire irons. It's a Holiday Social and hey will be calibrating our torque wrenches for us!

I had a 30 x 3 Firestone several years ago that was a Real Bear and resorted to inflating a modern car tire inside the new T tire to stretch it.

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Kerry » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:30 pm

Adam, your instructions would be the opposite to what I was taught on fitting a tube and tire, always finish at the valve stem so not to cut it with the tire bead when fitting.


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by SurfCityGene » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:43 pm

Kerry, I have always found it Much easier to get the tire with the stem inserted in the rim on the bottom if the wheel is on the car and then work around both sides to the top. It would be extremely hard to get the stem inserted thru the hole of the 3" or even the 3 1/2" rim after both beads are in place on the rim!

I would start the same with the stem inserted on the demountable rim as well except with rim laying.

This is on a clincher 30 x 3..??
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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Nv Bob » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:35 pm

Had one tge other day had relieve it at valve stem
Took 25 mins total to mount not usual 10-15
Prefer off the car
If i was closer i put it on for you


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Kerry » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:46 pm

Gene
I'm sure no one would try to fit a stem after both beads are on the rim, plenty of youtube clips on how to do it right, even one from Coker tires.


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:10 pm

I agree with Adam. A new flap is easier to work with than a used one, however, I'll be using the old one. I use lots of talcum powder, and that seems to help.

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:32 pm

It helps to use long irons. I use talcum, warm the tire, and put it on with 24" irons. It usually takes less than five minutes to mount a clincher.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Allan » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:34 pm

I cannot believe that there is still a need to cut a notch in the narrow beads on tyres available today. I have never mounted a 3" tyre, but even with old, wide footed 30 x 3.5" tyres there is no need for the notch, if you fit BOTH sides of the tyre at the same time. With the tube inflated just enough to hold its shape within the tyre, I drop the valve stem through the hole and work both beads into the rim, and hold them there with a clamp. Then both beads are levered on at the same time. The key is proper tyre mounting lubricant. And, best of all, there is no need for an expensive flap.
Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Susanne » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:02 pm

That 1/2" makes a difference. I didn't notch one on my car, and sure enough, it took out the then rubber valve stem. (lesson to self - always pay the money and get brass stems!)


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:39 pm

The reason for my problem was the tire, even though new, it was old and hard. I cut a V notch in the beads today to give me room for the original metal valve stem, and that did the trick. The new tires are softer, and don't seem to care about the valve stems.

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:01 pm

...always pay the money and get brass stems!

I save $10 to $13 a tube by getting rubber stems, cutting them off, and installing metal ones I've picked up at swap meets for $1 or so.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG110.html


IMG_2535 copy.JPG
IMG_2327 copy.JPG
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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Allan » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:11 pm

Here's what I mean. Old tyre with wide beads. No notch needed.
20191204_123403.jpg
You can use a clamp on both sides of the stem if you like, but one will do.
20191204_123403.jpg
Tbere is no flap in this assembly, rather a rim liner cut from a discarded 13" inner tube.
Both beads are levered on together intil right at the end, when just the last bit of one side remains to be levered/ rubber malleted in place.

It works for me.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:00 am

I agree with Allan. Both sides together.
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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:48 am

I like the photos that Steve Jelf posted! He's got it right with these photos. Even though Ford used 777 Schraders, I prefer the 888's which are 1/4" shorter, and still leave enough threads for the rim nut after it is mounted on the wheel.

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by KWTownsend » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:10 am

I had to cut notches in my new Excelsiors when I mounted them last summer.
I always start at the valve. I use a non-hook ratchet strap to hold everything in place (no damage to a wood felloe) and use some really old tire irons that are about 18" long and a Harbor Freight rubber mallet.

In fact, I bought a HF canvas tool bag and have the jack, tire irons, mallet, tube, and everything I would need to fix a flat in one neat, tidy package.

: ^ )

Keith


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:20 pm

Interesting post Keith! I have Excelsiors on my '25, and didn't need to do anything!


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Allan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:33 pm

Keith, are you saying that the two beads and the valve stem are wider than the distance between the edges of the rim?
If fitting one side of a clincher tyre first, then trying to stuff the tube in and get the valve stem down the hole, I can see why some resort to notching the bead. As you pull the unmounted side of the tyre aside to get your hand in to stuff the valve stem down the hole, you pull the already mounted side across the valve stem hole, blocking it off. So the notch is needed to cover a problem caused by a mounting technique for which there is an entirely acceptable alternative.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:51 pm

What I've been using for years is a special wire that looks like a modern speedometer cable, with a nub at one end that screws onto where the valve cap goes, and has a Tee handle at the other end. What I did this time to hold the tube in place is a rim nut screwed in upside down into the felloe. It keeps the valve stem centered while mounting the tire to the rim. This backs up what Adam said earlier.

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by RajoRacer » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:43 pm

I have & use one of them "antique" valve stem holders Larry !


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by JEC » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:24 pm

I use a tool like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valve-Stem-ins ... SwxH1UJ3zS

The long end screws onto the valve stem and I use a piece of wire around the T end to pull the stem through the fellow and wrap the other end of the wire around the axle nut to keep the stem in place.
I have an old rusty one that I have had for years and recently bought one at Autozone

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by RajoRacer » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:29 pm

Yes Siree - glad to see they're still available and made in America !!!!


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Allan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:41 pm

I believe that tool was designed to pull tubless tyre valve stems into the rim. It sure works well for that. It is also handy when installing truck tyres and the various stem configurations used on those. I have never had the occasion to use it on a T, but then I have never mounted tyres on wooden felloe rims which may require the stem be held in place.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:46 pm

Yup! That is the tool. Can't own a T without one. Like Steve said, I'm glad they are still available.

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by KWTownsend » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:17 pm

Here is what I did for mounting Excelsior tires on my non-demountable wheels:
Using the current rubber stem tubes, I was not able to get the two beads and stem inside the rim. So I notched them, like the old days.
I used my tire valve stem tool to hold the valve stem in place and used a big C-clamp to get the beads and stem in the rim.
tire clamp.jpg
I then put the stem at the bottom of the wheel and using the stem tool to told it in place, lower the jack jest enough so the wheel does not spin.
tire stem tool 1.jpg
I then use a piece of pvc pipe to put some tension on the rubber stem and hold it in place.
tire stem tool 2.jpg
I seated the bead a short distance away from the stem, then put on a short strap so the seated bead would stay in place. The strap is kind to the wooden felloe. I then went the opposite direction then seated the rest of the tire. I use some old tire irons that are about 18" long, and a rubber mallet that I picked up from Harbor Freight.
rubber mallet.jpg
There was a definite learning curve, and it would have been much easier with an extra set of hands! The first tire took me about 45 minutes to mount.by the time I got to the fourth tire, it took me about 10-15 minutes!

: ^ )

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by KWTownsend » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:18 pm

A side note, I choose Excelsior Tires because they have the smallest published diameter of any tires available with the exception of NON-SKIDS. However I drive my car a lot and needed tires that last longer than the NON SKIDS, Here is the difference between the new tires and my very old NON SKIDs.
tires old and new.jpg
YMMV

: ^ )


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by It's Bill » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:16 am

Excellent thread, gentlemen. Just bought the valve stem fishing tool. About $8.50 with free shipping. Cheers, Bill


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Pete Ratledge » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:33 am

Gentlemen, When I change a tire, I use a plastic bag on the wheel. I always work from the back of the wheel. I start by putting the tube in the tire with a liner and enough air in the tube to give it shape. I push the valve stem through the wheel and hold it with the valve stem holder that screws on ( like Keith uses ). I put both sides on at once using the long Harbor Freight tire irons. I use three of them and a rubber mallet. Starting from the valve. I get my wife or a friend to hold the two irons, while I work around the wheel,with the third one, alternating them. When the tire gets on, I trim what you can see of the plastic bag with a knife before putting air in the tire. I prefer to change a tire off of the car. I made a box with a rug on it and a hole for the hub of the wheel. ( U-Tube shows how to use the plastic bag )
Pete Ratledge


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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Original Smith » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:41 am

Keith:
Where did you find rubber stem tubes that fit through the opening in the felloe? I haven't seen anything since Schraeder made them that works!

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:58 pm

Where did you find rubber stem tubes that fit through the opening in the felloe?


IMG_4457.JPG
When I had a flat in September I installed a rubber-stem tube with no trouble. It's a Hartford. The wheel is by Noah Stutzman. I don't know if he makes the holes larger than original.
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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by KWTownsend » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:17 pm

Larry-
When Jim Kanne rebuilt the wheels, (before my time) I believe he used a larger sized ferrule in the hole in the felloe for the valve stem. I believe the rubber stem tubes I am currently using are Hartford. If I had original metal stems, I could use the valve stem nuts to hold the stem in place instead of the PVC pipe and valve core tool.

Pete-
I've seen video of the garbage bag method, but have never tried it. I'm glad Mary was able to help you. A couple of extra hands really makes a difference. I had Spencer help me mount some 30x3-1/2 demountables, but when I was doing the non-demountables by myself, I relied on the strap!

IMHO, the 30x3-1/2 are easier to mount than the 30x3. YMMV

: ^ )

Keith

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Re: Mounting A Stubborn 30 x 3

Post by RajoRacer » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:31 pm

I tried "the bag" trick once - took longer to get all the crap plastic out from under the bead !!!!

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