MTFCA Forum

I understand how the inboard (engine side) mounts to the crankcase bolts, but what about the outboard (frame) sides?

Do they rest on top of the lower frame flange or hang below?

The Model T Service manual is not clear on this point.

Rests on top of the frame rails.

Brad

The engine pan flange goes up against the bottom of the lower frame rail. Secured with lockwashers and nuts on the hood shelf carriage bolts.


Photo from Ford Service, outer edge of pan shown after removal of hood shelf bolts, free end under frame rail.

On my '26, the pans mount from the bottom as described by Dan Treace, jb

All the ones I have seen, Model T or A mount to the under side of the frame. For the T, the carriage bolts that mount the hood sills and wood blocks to the frame are used to mount them.

I don't find any text about the engine pans specifically, but Figure 18 shows the pan hanging under the frame rail after the nuts and lock washers have been removed. While the configuration of the pans changed over the years, believe they were always attached under the frame rails. I found nothing about them in the encyclopedia, but maybe somebody who's a better searcher can find a reference.

Look at this link - has very good pictures of the mounting points towards the bottom of the discussion
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1447712968
example of one picture there

Text from Ford Service: Chapter II. Assembling the Car, Paragraph 133 , line (c)

Insert the two engine pan bolts "B" through hood block, frame, and engine pan. Place lock washers over the ends of bolts and run down nuts.


The only way to fasten the engine pans is under the frame rail, the engine pan bolts run through the frame, note the order of instruction (c), hood block, then frame, then engine pan, that means the pan flange must be on the underside of the frame rail

I know early engine pans used a square nut (1/4 x 28 with a 3/8" head) and a cotter pin. When was the cotter pin replaced with a lock washer?
Were the bolt and nut changed too?

I have never found the frame rail bolts with a cotter pin on our Canadian sourced cars. The nuts are square, but are bigger than standard hardware shop nuts offered prior to today's glut of hex nuts. Also, the front bolts are shorter than the rear ones, to accommodate the taper in the frame rails, and the heads on the bolts are considerably smaller than standard coach bolts. For this reason I will often spend some time rescuing originals rather than just wrenching on them until they break.

Allan from down under.

Keith

There are cotters in the end of the engine pan bolts on the early T's. Don't know the date they were eliminated, but likely in '12?

Here is an award winning early T, you can even see the reflection of that cotter in the gleam of the shiny Ford black finish


Click on photo to enlarge
And Allan, yes me too, I try to save all the original T nuts and bolts, here is original square nut on 1925 engine pan bolt, the lock washer is modern, the original broke, and the original are thin, and fit snug to the bolt shaft and are smaller in diameter than the modern.