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Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:53 pm
by bdtutton
Hello,
I have been looking at a lot of pictures of brass Model T's and have noticed several of them have replaced their brass oilers with grease cups/fittings for shackles and spindles. At first I thought this was a terrible idea, but I use grease to lubricate my 1930 Model A. Maybe it would be a good idea to replace the oilers with grease cups/fittings.

What do you think?
Thanks....Bryan

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:17 pm
by Scott_Conger
If grease can get to where it is supposed to be, then the spindle or shackle bushings are shot

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:20 pm
by DanTreace
IMO, stay with oil. The king pin design is for an oil groove to drip oil to the upper and down to the lower bushing. Grease will harden and pack the oil hole.

And the repro modern king pins have little groove around the circumference, unlike the Ford vertical groove that really seeps oil down the shaft.
Grease won't do the job. Some get around that by drilling and adding a grease zerk fitting to the spindle body, that may help, but oil is still best.


IMG_5019 (700x690) (680x670).jpg
IMO, chain saw bar oil is good to use, clings and drips ok, with less running than typical engine oil in the oil can.[/b]

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:27 pm
by Virtus
To use grease the bushes must have grooves or channels on both surfaces to encourage the spread of lubricant to all surfaces. Oil, on the other hand, will form a film on pins and bushes with a smooth surface. I think many nipples are used with a heavier or stickier oil rather than grease.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:40 pm
by TXGOAT2
I've seen old equipment with lubrication instructions referring to "hard oil". I'm guessing that refers to something like 90W or 140 W. Whatever you put on your Model T steering linkage will wind up, more or less, on your front rims and tires. For ease of cleaning, something like a 40W detergent motor oil might be best. In the Model T era, most all machinery lubrication was designed on the total loss plan, and it required very frequent oiling and wiping. Seals, if any, were rudimentary at best. Where grease was specified, the grease typically served as a lubricant, flushing agent, and to a degree, as a seal to prevent dirt and water entering the bearing. Where the small oil cups were used, such as on Model T steering, it was argued that frequent re-oiling would serve to flush dirt out of the assembly while assuring a supply of clean oil. Around rail yards, factories, and stationary power plants, men were employed as "oilers" and "wipers", aka, "grease monkeys".

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:22 pm
by TRDxB2
After reading several old discussion the issue with oil is that it will flow out of whatever. So some suggest a "heavy sticky oil" like chain saw bar oil. As stated above what you use needs to flow in between the parts it is intended to lubricate. Perhaps the answer is a light weight grease or heavy weight oil :? http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1401462623
RED-GREASE?
Vertical parts (tie rod and spindle bolts) may favor heavy oil while horizontal parts (shackles) make work better with grease
https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3171

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:59 pm
by Scott_Conger
FWIW, bar oil or way oil is perhaps heavier than automotive motor oil, but is not heavy per-se. It is tacky due to modifiers which are intended to keep it from running out of or off of whatever it's put on. I believe that it is ideal for this use on a Model T in this manner and is my lube of choice.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:01 am
by Dan Hatch
Years ago STP was the go to for this.
But somewhere I read that MBRT used by all the old timers. 😀

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:46 pm
by Scott_Conger
Dan

you're showing your age

I'll bet you even know who Andy Granatelli was, too

:lol:

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:50 pm
by Dan Hatch
Does not everyone????
The real question is who was it that always talked about the MBRT? That will really tell how long someone has been on this forum. Dan :roll:

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:59 pm
by Scott_Conger
Hugh aren't going to tell, are you?

I won't.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:34 pm
by TXGOAT2
....... GRANCOR..........

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:48 pm
by Dan Hatch
Scott you are showing your forum age now.

I miss his post. Added a lot to the forum. Dan

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:41 pm
by TRDxB2
FORUM Dictionary
>MBRT - modified bitumen roofing tar
>GRANCOR - GRANatelli CORporation
>STP - Scientifically Treated Petroleum
WITH STOP LEAK ! Gotta check it out

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:36 pm
by CudaMan
I use chain saw bar oil in the oilers for my spindles, but I pump grease into the oilers for the shackles until I see grease squeezing out both ends. I use a large grease needle with a rubber tip that seals against the opening of the oiler. I use the factory jack to raise each shackle enough for the grease needle to reach both oilers. :)

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:44 pm
by John iaccino
The clearances for the spindles do not lend themselves to grease. Oil is the best thing to use for spindles. A few drops every time you drive is what is needed.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:59 pm
by paddy1998
Since we're sharing, this spring when I rolled it out for the season I had some leftover 50/50 mix of 85w-140 and Lucas Oil Stabilizer that I used in my other diffs, so I tried that out in the oil cups.

Seems to be working. Probably want something a little thinner in the fall.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:01 pm
by Kerry
One of my T's was converted to grease all round more than 25 years ago that I know of, a very high mileage out back trips and tours. Can't fault any spindle or shackle as yet :D
If I can't be stuffed to run around with an oil can first thing on any of the others, it's the T I jump in and go.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:54 am
by KWTownsend
I've used bar oil for the past 40 years. It is my chassis lube of choice.

Keith

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:38 am
by Been Here Before
Yes bar oil is the best. I just replaced all my chassis oilers. Had some help.
DSC_0075.JPG

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:13 am
by D Stroud
At one time, I thought grease would be better than oil in the spindles. Then, I remembered how grease will always take the path of least resistance. I learned that 50 years ago greasing the U Joints on my old '65 Chevy 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive pickup. There was always one side of the cross that wouldn't take grease. I would have to take a small jack and put pressure on the opposite trunion so grease would go to where it was needed. Had to do that pretty much everytime. On the T, I found that heavy oil works pretty good, gets kind of messy, but that's better than running dry. JMHO Dave

PS Mark Strange, where did you find oilers for the front spring that will clear the shackles?

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:33 am
by Nv Bob
Agree if grease get where needed your close to replacement
I use chain saw oil

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:18 am
by Model T Ron
My new to me 1915 touring has grease fittings and I have a feeling they have been on for some time. The car is in very good shape and it was driven. My first reaction was this may have not been a good idea but after taking some time to assess the condition of the car I would have to say grease fittings if properly installed are a good thing.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:40 am
by Kerry
I think the question would be, how many cars, truck etc used grease or oilers at that time and what was fazed out to have a preferred lube. I've been twisting spanners for well over 50 years and when it came to servicing, it wasn't with an oil can other than the T's. We all know how tight Henry was and any cost saving was always implemented, tin insert or grease nipple, mmm, what would the choice be?

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:32 am
by TXGOAT2
Something to consider: In 1907, when the Model T was designed, what was commonly available in the way of commercially prepared automobile chassis grease? What was available in the way of tools and fittings for applying such grease to chassis parts? "Dope cups" were not suitable for most chassis lube points. Most farmers in 1907 had an oil can of some sort, and If they had a Model T, they had motor oil. For a great many early Model T owners, the car was the only power driven machine they owned.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:19 am
by Will_Vanderburg
The only place on my car that I’ve retrofitted grease fittings is inside the dope cups

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:29 am
by Quickm007
CudaMan wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:36 pm
I use chain saw bar oil in the oilers for my spindles, but I pump grease into the oilers for the shackles until I see grease squeezing out both ends. I use a large grease needle with a rubber tip that seals against the opening of the oiler. I use the factory jack to raise each shackle enough for the grease needle to reach both oilers. :)
I like that. I will try it with my 1914 speedster as well

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:06 pm
by RustyFords
I'm using a high quality chainsaw bar oil.

I guess time will tell if it's done the job.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:52 pm
by TXGOAT2
Bar oil with some powdered graphite intended for locks would probably do a good job.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:41 am
by dykker5502
10+ years ago, when i got my first T (the Fordor) I replaced the spindles and considered to change the oilers to grease niples, but kept the oilers. The next 8 years I oiled the whole chassis at some regular times - mostly before longer rides (NOT before every ride). Then it was time for the next inspection (MOT) and I could just see that there was a little slop, so I decided to replace, but I was pretty amazed that the oiul had done it so well. I use the W600/SAE 250 rearend oil.
I have actually also considered chainsaw oil siunce it have this feature of being sticky (so it stays as long as possible on the chain) and maybe I'll switch to that when my SAE250 bottle is empty.

Re: Greasing shackles and spindles -vs- oiling

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:50 am
by Original Smith
I've never not done what the Ford Service Book says. I've never had a problem ever! I don't know why restorers almost always have to change what Ford recommended. All I've done is to use brass bushings like the early cars, so as not to wear the perfect shackles and king pins in my cars. I have a T that I've owned for over 60 years, and have never used anything but engine oil in the bushings. The car now has over 55,000 miles with no wear in any of those places.