MTFCA Forum

Help! Yesterday while driving my grand children the clutch made a noise and began to slip somewhat until it would no longer grab at all. I believe the spring may have failed. Looking for the best way to determine if this is so and how to best repair this. [image][image][/image][/image]My wife is hoping repairs can be done without removing engine as she has helped with two engine swaps this month. Thanks, John

Check your clutch finger adjustment.

Clutch fingers do not seem to exert any pressure.

Is your spring broken. What happens when you push the brake lever all the way forward. You do not have to pull the engine to change a clutch spring but it is a chore. You have to pull the drive shaft and take out the 4 th main. Do you have broken clutch fingers?

If the low and reverse work, but high does not work, then your problem is the clutch. One problem which sometimes happens is the parking brake rods are adjusted too long and when you shift into low or neutral the brake rods will push the lever back enough to keep it in neutral. To check for this, take out the clevis pins from the brake rods, then push the lever all the way forward and with the brake rods pushed all the way back, the pins should slip right in without having to force them.
Norm

Hi Norman. Thanks. Everything was working perfectly and then a funny noise and high gear slowly disappeared. I will ck the linkage first.

Hi Joe. Thanks. I think you may be correct. Is there anywhere I can look up info on changing the spring while still in car. I have always done the spring on the workbench.

See chapter XIV, page 139 of the Ford Model T service manual, for the in-car procedure for changing the high clutch spring

You'll never do it twice

If the clutch "faded" rather than suddenly failing, it may be that a clutch finger adjuster, or all of them, worked loose, and got free of the safety wire and backed off. I'd think if the spring had broken, it would cause a sudden and complete failure of the clutch.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:16 pm

If the clutch "faded" rather than suddenly failing, it may be that a clutch finger adjuster, or all of them, worked loose, and got free of the safety wire and backed off. I'd think if the spring had broken, it would cause a sudden and complete failure of the clutch.

A broken spring will be easy to see. Take a look. Check low pedal clutch linkage. I did have some similal weird clutch symptoms. Turned out to be a defective batch of clutch shoes would spilt & come apart. Found pieces in the oil. 1/4' x 1" sheet metal.

Scott, it sounds like replacing the spring in-car is done twice! The first and the last time!!!!

Allan from down under.

And when you read the footnote to the Ford Service paragraph on in car clutch spring change, it states 2 persons are needed! Bet one of the two needs to have done it before

Good morning. I want to thank everyone who helped. I appreciate all the helpful ideas. I ended up lucky as it appears there were no cotter pins in the finger adjusters and they had not backed out ALL the way yet. As I said we did several rebuilds and swaps lately and I guess I must have left the cotter pins out of this one. As time goes by it is getting harder and harder to get quality workmanship. Thanks all! John

Good morning. I want to thank everyone who helped. I appreciate all the helpful ideas. I ended up lucky as it appears there were no cotter pins in the finger adjusters and they had not backed out ALL the way yet. As I said we did several rebuilds and swaps lately and I guess I must have left the cotter pins out of this one. As time goes by it is getting harder and harder to get quality workmanship. Thanks all! John

I am glad you found the problem in time. Have you or anyone you know toured cape Bretton in a Model t. My wife and I drove it in a modern car about 10 years ago. I would love to do in a Model t. Probably need a ruxtell.
Art Mirtes

I have never done that in a T but Cape Breton would be beautiful You would definitely need at least Ruxtell and disk brakes

Check to see how far into the driven plate the three pins are? I replaced six sets of the turbo 400, jack rabbit , watts clutches this past year, I have never seen the steel ones destroyed. My guess is there is an after market set of disc in there causing these issues!

Joe Bell wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:56 am

Check to see how far into the driven plate the three pins are? I replaced six sets of the turbo 400, jack rabbit , watts clutches this past year, I have never seen the steel ones destroyed. My guess is there is an after market set of disc in there causing these issues!

What the heck are you doing. I have never even wore a set. (Heavy duty 400's.) 10k miles or so. I run them in all 4 of my T's. Last refresh of motor, showed no wear, re-used old set. Did you follow the instructions? using a weak spring? Miss adjusted linkage? This is not normal.

Joe, you list all of the modern clutch packs as failures, that would only endorse that those T owners/drivers need to be educated on how to drive a T correctly.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:16 am

Joe Bell wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:56 am

Check to see how far into the driven plate the three pins are? I replaced six sets of the turbo 400, jack rabbit , watts clutches this past year, I have never seen the steel ones destroyed. My guess is there is an after market set of disc in there causing these issues!

What the heck are you doing. I have never even wore a set. (Heavy duty 400's.) 10k miles or so. I run them in all 4 of my T's. Last refresh of motor, showed no wear, re-used old set. Did you follow the instructions? using a weak spring? Miss adjusted linkage? This is not normal.

I don't think he meant that in ONE car Speedy. Joe is a very capable, professional engine rebuilder and usually has close to a dozen engines in queue at any given time awaiting rebuilding. He's seen tons of these clutch problems, I think that's what he meant, six separate cases! Just to clarify on Joe's behalf.

Quite honestly, my '11 Torpedo has a near worn out set of Jack Rabbits that came with the car when I bought it last Feb. My engine will be in his shop "waiting in line" come this October when the season ends. Back to stock clutch pack for me!

As Tim said these are all different engines and people that have owned them, do not know why and do not care how, I have been the person that had to replace them !

It seems as though Mr. Karvaly is our most recent self proclaimed expert - no worries Joe !

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:36 am

It seems as though Mr. Karvaly is our most recent self proclaimed expert - no worries Joe !

I dont get where you get that impression. Expert at what? I make no such claims.

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:36 am

It seems as though Mr. Karvaly is our most recent self proclaimed expert - no worries Joe !

Alright, spit it out, if you are man enough. Come around to the front. You are not going to hurt my feelings & i'll tell you where you are wrong.

Joe Bell wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:40 am

As Tim said these are all different engines and people that have owned them, do not know why and do not care how, I have been the person that had to replace them !

Post disappeared. Trying again.
Then you are in the best position to have noticed why. Was there a common issue/problem? Notched drum, weak clutch spring? You rebuild many more engines than I do, from what I gather.
I have found a worn out set in a customers newly purchased T. After replacing the 400 clutch & setting it up right, he has had no issues.
Maybe they are like Kevlar bands. Unforgiving, but a wonderful improvement when well executed. A matter of opinion. Some orientalists will never agree on principle. What ever makes you happy.