MTFCA Forum

Our model T speedster was restored in 1970 by my neighbor and I would ride in it anytime he asked me for a ride as a child (or adult). I bought it from him a few years ago and my family and I have had a lot of fun with it since purchasing. The other day the front wheel bearing went out and cracked the hub with it where it is threaded. Although I grew up around this car, I am still "new" to learning about Model T's so I am seeking some information please, since my neighbor is in a nursing home and can no longer assist me with my questions. Based on my research, this appears to be wooden wheel hub, correct? If so, are they steel or cast iron? My neighbor machined off the old inside spoke bracket section and welded on new plates and then machined the plates to match the hubs and swedged in new studs. If they are cast iron, I would think in 1970 he would have used nickle rod, but the welds seem too nice for nickle from what I have seen over the years on cast iron. I have thought about drilling a hole at the end of the break and brazing it up if it is cast iron and then shrinking a sleeve over it on the outside, or welding it if it is steel and adding the sleeve, but I think making new hubs would be safer. Before I reverse engineer this hub and machine two new ones out of steel, does anyone make new ones out of steel with "A" bolt patterns for the "T" spindle to save me a bunch of work? If not, does anyone have a drawing of the front wheel hub from Ford with accurate dimensions? I searched on line and this site and didn't find any drawings. I could then draw it in cad and add the plate where it needs to be and then fabricate them and machine them. I know they sell adapters, but I am not interested in using those when I can just make new steel hubs.

My youngest son and I used to go out every Friday evening for nearly a two hour drive and he commented that he has missed our father/son time together, so I feel a sense of urgency to get the car back on the road. Any suggestions, guidance, and help would be greatly appreciated to help me get this vehicle back on the road.

Saturday I looked at a building full of T parts for sale. In the pile was a front axle with spindles and on the spindles were Model A wheels mounted on Model A hubs.
Now, not sure if they were driven that way but looked like they would fit. I did not pay much attention to it. But they were on there. May have been just to roll around a car or someone seeing if they would fit. Do not know.
Just relaying info.

I believe the hub is forged steel, most likely with some vanadium. Since it's already been welded, why not weld up the bearing cup area, then re-machine it? That would provide an opportunity to get both bearing bores and the flange accurately aligned. If new hubs are available, modifying a new pair to suit might be the best option.

If you have a lathe or access to a machinist, it would be pretty easy to cut flange off a different hub, cut the center out of yours and weld them back together. I’ve never seen this done before, but what a neat looking hub assembly. 903-eight24-1949 Bob

From http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1471302865
Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 07:14 pm:
It is very easy to put the Model A Ford wheels on the front of a Model T Ford. Just install the Model A Hub and bearings (they fit fine). And as shown in your the photo make arrangements to �lock� the front wheel nut once the bearings are adjusted. In your photo they jammed the first nut with a second front wheel nut. But you could also drill a new cotter pin hole in the spindle in the correct place. If you want to install the Model A hub cap on the wheel you need to do something because the Model T spindle is quite a bit longer than the Model A spindle. You could shorten the T spindle, put good size hole in the hub cap or even attach the hub cap to the spindle between the two nuts and don�t allow the hub cap to touch the wheel. Note the Model A brake drum can be turned down if needed to clear things.

This is our T speedster. My family and I have put 9,960 miles on it according to the gps in a year and a half. I went through everything on the car when we first got it and changed all of the fluids, coolant, etc. On 12/23/2020, my son and I drove to the beach and I said to him, "on Christmas afternoon we should repack the front wheel bearings and I will teach you how to do that..." We came home on the roll back and the young boy was extremely careful with our car and did a great job with the tow home. After my son said that he missed our Friday night drives, I pulled the wheel of yesterday and found the cracked hub.

A friend of my father's, that has known me since I was in diapers, is sending me a 26/27 hub and I am going to look about making a new plate and welding it on and then I can machine the surface and index the bolt pattern in the mill. I am also going to look at welding up the crack in my old hub, and then I can re-machine it, but that area of the hub looks thin from the factory to me to hold a race for a front wheel bearing. I'm still not giving up on the idea of just machining two new hubs because of how thin the original hubs are over the outer races. I will review the hub when I get it and see what will be the path of getting the car back on the road.

Speedster Jeff wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:14 pm

A friend of my father's, that has known me since I was in diapers, is sending me a 26/27 hub and I am going to look about making a new plate and welding it on and then I can machine the surface and index the bolt pattern in the mill. I am also going to look at welding up the crack in my old hub, and then I can re-machine it, but that area of the hub looks thin from the factory to me to hold a race for a front wheel bearing. I'm still not giving up on the idea of just machining two new hubs because of how thin the original hubs are over the outer races. I will review the hub when I get it and see what will be the path of getting the car back on the road.

I would absolutely NOT try to repair that hub! It's junk.

So I have scoured the net looking for hub drawings and am surprised that there isn't any drawings out there. I have the 26/27 hubs that a friend gave me and I need to look them over, but I am really leaning towards just machining new steel hubs since we have the facilities to do so. I just don't like the idea of a ring under the 26/27 hubs being bolted on under the wheel and the wheel bolts to the ring. Any feedback would be appreciated since I am new to this vehicle. Thank you.

This must be a Taboo subject in the world of T owners.

Speedster Jeff wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:24 pm

This must be a Taboo subject in the world of T owners.

Sometimes

But really, there aren't a lot of good solutions, although lots of people do this conversion. As you state, I don't like the idea of the adapters either. So, barring that, what else to suggest?

Speedster Jeff wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:53 am

So I have scoured the net looking for hub drawings and am surprised that there isn't any drawings out there. I have the 26/27 hubs that a friend gave me and I need to look them over, but I am really leaning towards just machining new steel hubs since we have the facilities to do so. I just don't like the idea of a ring under the 26/27 hubs being bolted on under the wheel and the wheel bolts to the ring. Any feedback would be appreciated since I am new to this vehicle. Thank you.

Lang's sells solid steel '27-27 hubs for wire wheels so someone has the specs. The T bolt pattern is 5 on 5" and the A pattern is 5 on 5-1/2". Speedway has several "adapters" for A wire wheels. Take a look at this link it may give you some ideas. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-tool ... 1935/28813
You may need this, depends on the year of the wire wheels you use

Why don't you look for a set of T wire wheels and hubs? I have heard of adapters from T wheels to A wheels, however, I don't know where you can buy them. I think they bolt on so you don't have to weld anything.
Norm

I picked up this frame with a bunch of parts several years ago. It has Model A wheels on the front with Model A hubs.

Corey Walker wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:09 am

I picked up this frame with a bunch of parts several years ago. It has Model A wheels on the front with Model A hubs.

I thought I had the solution. I have a set of A/AR hubs. After A hard look, I see 2 issues. 1) As shown, spindles are too long. & 2) Outer bearing race is the same as a T, but the inner bearing race is smaller & the hub is not thick enough to make T size. That adds complications to bearing & seal. Not that its insurmountable, but would take some engineering & probably machinist skills & a very friendly bearing house.

My replay to him asking on Fordbarn;
The more I looked at the project, the faster I walked away from it. It has been a while since I even looked in to the conversion.
Part of what the spacer needs to do is move the hub over, so a sleeve can be put on the threaded part of the spindle if Model A outer bearings are used or if Model T outer bearings are used, you don't run out of thread.
The T spindles I had/have, the area behind the thread is recessed, smaller than the thread. Some of the guys that do the conversion, do not take into account that using the Model A outer bearing, it should not just ride on the crown of the thread, it was not meant to support the bearing.
The inner bearing, with enough spacer to move the hub over, was no longer fully supported on the shoulder of the spindle.
Because of the shallow depth of the inner bearing, you then need to figure how to mount an outboard seal.
I do not recall how wide the spacer would need to be.
Personally, knowing how a Model A should be mounted, I would not use or recommend the adapters sold in the catalogs. They don't support or mount the wheel correctly.

After extensive research, I am drawing up another hub that will support the model A wheel at both places and I will just machine two new ones out of steel that use T bearings. It will basically be a T hub with an A bolt pattern with no adapter plates. Thank you for all of the responses.

Speedster Jeff wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:32 am

After extensive research, I am drawing up another hub that will support the model A wheel at both places and I will just machine two new ones out of steel that use T bearings. It will basically be a T hub with an A bolt pattern with no adapter plates. Thank you for all of the responses.

Sounds like a good approach.