MTFCA Forum

I tried my hand at building a Triple gear pin locking ring.first I cut a piece of 3/16ths aluminum plate.then turned the inner and outer dia in the turn table on the Bridgeportthen turned the outer dia to size on the Atlas lathethen turned the inner dia on the Clausing lathethen test fit to the flywheel

next I needed to turn a step in the ring to allow the ring to lay flat on the flywheelend resultthen i drilled the ring thru the other side of the flywheel for the mounting bolts. 5/16 fit perfect without hitting threads.then drilled to the finished size of the mounting bolt and wala! one locking ring. the purpose of this is to keep the triple gear pins from backing thru the flywheel when it is run with no magnets installed. hope you enjoyed!
Bryant

Very nice work. If the triple gears are loose enough to push one way, they could also go the other way too. The magnets don't hold them in, the press fit does. The part that presses into the flywheel is not tapered. https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/4 ... 1409111125

The majority of original triple gear pins have a small shoulder at the end of the press fit diameter. This shoulder and the magnet contacting the end of the pin is intended to retain the pin in the flywheel along with the press fit. Most aftermarket pins I've seen do not have this shoulder. Just FYI.

Dan McEachern wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:20 pm

The majority of original triple gear pins have a small shoulder at the end of the press fit diameter. This shoulder and the magnet contacting the end of the pin is intended to retain the pin in the flywheel along with the press fit. Most aftermarket pins I've seen do not have this shoulder. Just FYI.

So Dan, In your opinion, does this type retaining ring serve a functional purpose?

My thought is, if the pin has come loose to the point of needing a retaining ring, you're in deep doo-doo anyway. Do pins ever come loose even when magnets are used? I think they do sometimes...

I have installed Dans pins in the flywheel and needle bearings in the triple gears. this type cannot go thru the flywheel. this is why I had to turn a step in the ring because the pin set up a little bit.
Bryant

Bryant wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:46 pm

... because the pin set up a little bit.

Bryant

Deleted comment...

Read this thread will answer the question what Dan M. thinks.
I have never seen a pin come loose but I have heard of it. That is why when I remove magnets for a customer it gets one of Dan’s rings.
viewtopic.php?t=1166

Why flywheels are plentiful
But alot nice work solve an issue that in 40 years playing With Ts I've never seen nor heard of

You really WANT the ring to push on the end of the pins and not be flush with the flywheel. At least that's my opinion.
John- I suppose its a belt and suspenders kind of thing, but I think they are cheap insurance. Nothing is going to stop a seized bushing from tearing the pin out of the flywheel, but that's a whole separate can of worms................................. I just think that Ford intended the magnets to push on the end of the pin, so the plate kinda does the same thing. I've tried other methods, but the 16 magnet bolts VS the 3 pins and the "no good spacing" issues with that made the ring the simplest solution for me. I've been told the latest revision to the triple gear pin drawing removed the shoulder in '26 ? as probably a cost saving effort, but I prefer that the pin has that step. It only adds one additional operation when grinding the pins so...............in the big picture, its not a big deal.

I believe the Thread Dan Hatch posted is the one that I read that made me want to build one.
I had a lot of fun though and I probably have 4 hours in it.
Bryant

Dan McEachern wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:24 pm

You really WANT the ring to push on the end of the pins and not be flush with the flywheel. At least that's my opinion.

I had to tap it on with a hammer, so all was good on the pins and the flywheel. fit nicely.
Bryant

Bryant- make sure to have that flywheel balanced before assembling the transmission.

Dan McEachern wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:43 pm

Bryant- make sure to have that flywheel balanced before assembling the transmission.

Thank you I will. I’ve also built some oil slingers but I will let them loose in another thread another time. Iam currently building balancing mandrels for the flywheel and trans drums. Just checking off boxes in the MTFCA transmission book!
Bryant

Bryant, were you saying that the triple gear pins were slightly proud of the flange on the back of the flywheel? As to say that the ring (or magnets if installed) would be slightly elevated above the flywheel flange? If so, did you measure the gap? I am just curious because mine did the same thing, but it bothers me that the pins were not flush with the flywheel.

-Joshua

1923Touring wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:57 pm

Bryant, were you saying that the triple gear pins were slightly proud of the flange on the back of the flywheel? As to say that the ring (or magnets if installed) would be slightly elevated above the flywheel flange? If so, did you measure the gap? I am just curious because mine did the same thing, but it bothers me that the pins were not flush with the flywheel.

-Joshua

I don’t recall what I took off but it wasn’t very much. I’ve got the flywheel assembled to the engine for test purposes at the moment so I can’t get a measurement now. Again the pins I used were Dan’s. They are designed to be used with caged needle bearings. He may be able to tell you the measurements though.
Bryant

Look at drawing in the link I posted. Pins are made to do that. That keeps them from coming out the other side of flywheel. Magnets stop them from coming out the magnet side. His ring acts like the magnets. Again, I have not seen a pin move, but have heard of it. Cheap insurance.
Dan’s pin are only ones made to Ford drawing. Also only one with correct finish on the bushing area too. Run your nail up and down the cheap pin. Feels like a washboard, what does that do to your bushing?

Nice work!

What made you decide to not run any magnets?

The confusion over triple pins arises from the fact that from 5/29/23 on Ford produced two (2) slightly different triple gear pins at the same time. Before 5/29/23 the same triple gear pin was used both for new production and for repairs when triple gear pins had to be replaced. The factory symbol number of the triple gear pin was T-715.

On 5/29/23 Ford adopted a modified triple gear pin that was slightly larger in diameter at the point where the pin is pressed into the flywheel. Ford designated this new pin by giving it the symbol number T-715-AR and on the drawing Ford noted that this pin is to be used for repairs only.

The original design triple gear pin was given the symbol number T-715-B and was used in new production flywheels for the remainder of Model T production.

The two different triple gear pins can be distinguished by either measuring them at the base or by looking for a larger diameter of the pin at the bottom 1/8” of the pin. T-715-B has the larger diameter for 1/8” at the bottom of the pin. T-715-AR is slightly larger at the bottom of the pin and the sides are straight for the entire distance the pin is in contact with the flywheel.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess

Ed Fuller wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:10 pm

Nice work!

What made you decide to not run any magnets?

I’ve acquired a Bosch front plate and distributor. Some was fear of the unknown (magnets breaking and flying apart) maybe unlikely but I read a thread on here about it my next T will be with the original ignition system. Gotta have both!
Bryant