MTFCA Forum

I'm in the process of building a speedster and about to finish the chassis modifications. I would like to see examples of Panhard bars that have been used on Model T's. How were they mounted on both the front front and rear? Those of you that have them, did you see any difference in handling or stability?

Roger Byrne wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:10 pm

I'm in the process of building a speedster and about to finish the chassis modifications. I would like to see examples of Panhard bars that have been used on Model T's. How were they mounted on both the front front and rear? Those of you that have them, did you see any difference in handling or stability?

I don't have a pictures at present to show all that I have made but these pix are how I have made one for a 'gow job' T roadster with stock axle. I just used a T drag link to make the Panhard Bar and used new threaded steering balls for the ends. On a T with cross-steer, they make a HUGE difference especially when cornering. I personally don't feel it was worth the effort for the rear.

Best to read various articles related to the purpose of panhard bar, sway bars, steering stabilizers etc

Some older discussion https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/1 ... 1312792242
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In some recent related discussion about this left the question of its purpose. Sounds like it functions as Anthony described abov
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39345&p=302989&hili ... ck#p302989
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Definition Pro's & Cons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard_rod

BRENT in 10-uh-C wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:54 pm

Roger Byrne wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:10 pm

I'm in the process of building a speedster and about to finish the chassis modifications. I would like to see examples of Panhard bars that have been used on Model T's. How were they mounted on both the front front and rear? Those of you that have them, did you see any difference in handling or stability?

I don't have a pictures at present to show all that I have made but these pix are how I have made one for a 'gow job' T roadster with stock axle. I just used a T drag link to make the Panhard Bar and used new threaded steering balls for the ends. On a T with cross-steer, they make a HUGE difference especially when cornering. I personally don't feel it was worth the effort for the rear.


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I really appreciate the use of a T drag link & right out front, keeping it more period correct.

Always best to keep the Panhard rod as long as possible and also as horizontal as possible to minimize bump steer. Modified Model T drag links work pretty well and look like they were made for the purpose.

Panhard Bars should always be slightly larger than steering control bars and should always be used with some sort of shock absorbers. The biggest problem happens due to people not installing some sort of rubber absorption device at the attachment points, very critical as reverberation with frequency causes metal fatigue. Slight bends are acceptable for clearance up to 20 degrees and they should always be mounted directly above the axle if at all possible. The mounting points should be as close as possible to the outer section of the frame and like wise to the axle on opposite end of attachment. This is the short version, there are about 200 pages of engineering data from about 75 years.

From the ASE (American Society of Engineers) and BSE (British Society of Engineers)

No sense in re-writing a book or over thinking it.

My $0.02,

Hank

A short rod can cause problems. Longer is better. Canted tubular shocks will stabilize the front end very well. Shocks make a lot of difference at higher speeds.

Panhard Bar.., French inventor 1910ish, Watts Linkage, Scottish inventor 1784. Same guy who came up with the Watt as a measurement in electricity. Both state a short version in their designs as it prevents flex and more precise adjustment. Geometry is the key in their performances.

Just stating facts from their writings,

Hank

Thanks fellas for all the input and photos. If I build one for my car, while still trying to retain the "vintage" look, I will definitely attach some type of absorption device at the mounting points. I figured there needed to be something there like the composite bushings used on modern suspensions. I also appreciate the comments and examples posted by Henry K Lee . . . he is a true engineer and craftsman! I was glad when he came back to the forum so he can share his knowledge with the rest of us!

If you have much suspension compliance, a short rod will force the axle sideways as the axle moves up and down relative to the frame. A longer rod will minimize this effect, but it must be rigid to be of any use. A very short rod could try to lift the car or pull it downward when subjected to side forces. Late 1940s Ford cars used panhard rods front and rear, which allowed for longer spring shackles, longer, softer springs, and improved ride. They were used with double acting Houdaille shocks. Some cars also had a sway bar on the front to control roll.

Thank you guys for forcing me to sort through some old photographs/memories, to find a decent shot of the Panhard bar on old #4. Simple but functionable. I know no one needs another shot of old #4 but take a look of the Panhard bar/steady steering device. Bolted to the left of center, on the front cross member and stretching across to the right and attached to the upper bolt of the spring shackle/perch. It's made of approx.1/8"x 1" flat iron with a second layer riveted to it. The second layer stretches almost all the way to the bolts on each end. So simple and I've never had a car that handles as good. The first picture was a gift to me from professional race photographer Ned Lawler, taken at Laguna Seca Raceway in Monterey during a race, as I was exiting a sharp left, turn 11, at speed. The other picture looks down at at the bar with the radiator removed and shows it bolted to that front cross member. There may be better ones out the but this simple set up sure works great and I doubt if many of you are going to stress your car much more than I do.
Ed aka #4