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Water in the Oil
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2026 5:30 pm
by John_Aldrich
NOT good.
Pulled the engine to put a rebuilt transmission on.
Put the car back together and when I checked the oil prior to starting the car it had oil in it (I installed a dipstick years ago).
Changed the oil and pulled the head thinking I had a blown head gasket. Replaced the head gasket (didn't really look bad) and reassembled.
Started the car and it started fine although I got blue smoke out of the exhaust initially. Not sure why. The longer the car ran the worse it would run (maybe 3 minutes long)
Head bolts are tight and has a new gasket. All I can think of is a cracked block.
Anyone have another idea?
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2026 5:34 pm
by JTT3
Just spitballing here.
Any chance tightening the head bolts you went into the jacket?
Have you ever decked the block & head?
Any freeze plug leaking water into the valve gallery?
Crack running from valve sleeve to cylinder or a crack in the cylinder wall?
Crack in the head on gasket side
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2026 5:47 pm
by TXGOAT2
100% fresh gasoline? Did the engine run well before the work? How much water in the oil? Did it run with water in the oil? Plain water or water and antifreeze? Could be a a gasket issue, a crack, or condensation if the amount was small. Is there any chance that washing the powerplant prior to the work could have gotten water in it? T engines aren't water tight.
I'd recheck for water at the drain plug, and pull the plugs and look for any evidence of moisture. If none is evident, I'd run the engine to operating temperature and look for bubbles in the radiator tank and any evidence of excessive steam at the exhaust or at the oil fill cap.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2026 6:34 pm
by Mike Silbert
Perform a leak down test and check for air out the radiator to test the head gasket seal.
Or look for radiator bubbles when running.
This will give the answer or rule it out.
Now it might only leak when warmed up.
A leak down test will tell other things besides head gasket condition also.
It is difficult and risky to pressurize the radiator and look inside for drips.
Look for green drips up inside the bottom of the engine with the inspection cover off.
Mike
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:39 am
by Joe Bell
Is it a 26-7 block? real problem cracks in the valve chamber between 2+3 cylinder going from main bolt to soft plug, i have pitched many blocks from this problem. take valve cover off and look up or use a mirror to see if rust is there or a crack.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 10:11 am
by TXGOAT2
How much water was in the oil? Was a significant amount of water missing from the radiator?
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 11:31 am
by John_Aldrich
JTT3 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 10, 2026 5:34 pm
Just spitballing here.
Any chance tightening the head bolts you went into the jacket?
Have you ever decked the block & head?
Any freeze plug leaking water into the valve gallery?
Crack running from valve sleeve to cylinder or a crack in the cylinder wall?
Crack in the head on gasket side
Appreciate all the feed back.
How much water in the oil? The short time I ran it the water turned the new oil milky so it's getting there fast.
I'll start checking for cracks and yes, it's a 1927 block on a Canadian built car.
Z head never decked. Don't know if the block has been decked.
Engine ran well prior to repair. I did remove the distributor and went back to coils.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 11:51 am
by TXGOAT2
Fresh oil will turn milky very quickly after start-up with even a small amount of water present. In cold weather, oil can turn milky after start up with NO free water present, due to water vapor normally released during the combustion process.
You may have a problem, or you may not. In colder weather, it's common for white moisture slime to form inside valve covers and oil filler caps on engines that have not reached full operating temperature and run for a period of time to drive off the moisture. In cold weather, some engines will accumulate condensate inside valve covers and oil filler pipes and road draft pipes even after being driven for miles.
Every gallon of gasoline burned releases about 3 gallons of water. Most of it goes out the exhaust as steam or condensate, but some of it gets past the rings and then it condenses in the crankcase and any other place inside the engine that is not hot enough to prevent it. This effect is more pronounced in damp weather. In engines that are not driven for miles in cooler weather once started, a considerable amount of water can accumulate in the crank case. Model T engines don't have the best crank case ventilation, and they can, under short trip driving in cooler weather, accumulate a substantial amount of moisture and even free water in the crankcase. On place that is very vulnerable to moisture accumulation is an accessory dipstick, which will stay much cooler than the rest of the engine, and thus condense moisture on the dipstick and inside the dipstick tube.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 1:21 pm
by John_Aldrich
TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 11, 2026 11:51 am
Fresh oil will turn milky very quickly after start-up with even a small amount of water present. In cold weather, oil can turn milky after start up with NO free water present, due to water vapor normally released during the combustion process.
You may have a problem, or you may not. In colder weather, it's common for white moisture slime to form inside valve covers and oil filler caps on engines that have not reached full operating temperature and run for a period of time to drive off the moisture. In cold weather, some engines will accumulate condensate inside valve covers and oil filler pipes and road draft pipes even after being driven for miles.
Every gallon of gasoline burned releases about 3 gallons of water. Most of it goes out the exhaust as steam or condensate, but some of it gets past the rings and then it condenses in the crankcase and any other place inside the engine that is not hot enough to prevent it. This effect is more pronounced in damp weather. In engines that are not driven for miles in cooler weather once started, a considerable amount of water can accumulate in the crank case. Model T engines don't have the best crank case ventilation, and they can, under short trip driving in cooler weather, accumulate a substantial amount of moisture and even free water in the crankcase. On place that is very vulnerable to moisture accumulation is an accessory dipstick, which will stay much cooler than the rest of the engine, and thus condense moisture on the dipstick and inside the dipstick tube.
Very interesting. Once I get a heli coil in this newly stripped head bolt I'll reassemble and try to see if I can "burn" the water out!
I live in a very humid and "wet" area of Washington state with a year round creek in my backyard.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 3:11 pm
by TXGOAT2
I'd raise the front of the car about 8 to 10 inches, then drain the oil into a clean container and look for any free water. If there's very little or none, and NO evidence of antifreeze, I'd put the oil back in the engine, reserving and discarding any free water. But if the oil is very milky or visibly water cut, I'd replace it. If it's slightly milky, it isn't likely to do any harm. It's important to drive the car for at least ten miles on the open road, and more is better. 20 t0 40 miles at 30 MPH or so would be nice. It takes a while for the engine, transmission and the oil to fully warm up, and once warm (hot, actually) the engine needs to run for a while to allow time for the moisture to be driven out. Be watchful for any sign of water leaking from the radiator. It's best not to start a car unless you are going to drive it ten miles or more, and more is better. That's especially true in cool humid weather.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 3:19 pm
by TXGOAT2
Z head? Aluminum heads require a specific torquing procedure and several re-torques. Stock head bolts may not be the right length for a Z head, and bolt heads must have steel washers under them when used with an aluminum head. The aluminum head is a different animal than the stock cast iron head.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 5:54 pm
by John_Aldrich
TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 11, 2026 3:19 pm
Z head? Aluminum heads require a specific torquing procedure and several re-torques. Stock head bolts may not be the right length for a Z head, and bolt heads must have steel washers under them when used with an aluminum head. The aluminum head is a different animal than the stock cast iron head.
I agree. I run them on all my T's and do exactly as you have said about the sequence and washers. I normally torque to 50 ft lbs but I'm stripping head bolts this time for some reason. Tried another (less expensive) torque wrench with the same results.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:05 pm
by TXGOAT2
Are the bolts too short? It's important that they aren't too long, but too short is also verboten A bolt without enough reach to engage most of the threads is likely to strip threads in the block. There are some detailed discussion threads on head bolt issues. The Z head may require longer than stock bolts. Some old blocks have corroded or worn threads, or debris packed in the bottom of the bolt holes.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:09 pm
by Scott_Conger
Easy does it, John. Torqueing a "T" head to 50# successfully without stripping a thread is simply pure luck and doing it over and over again on each head bolt really ups the odds of failure. 45 is pushing it and 50 is murder on the threads. FORD cast iron is soft stuff, especially the earliest cars, and 100 years later, the threads are no stronger than when new and modern torque values for new, modern materials doesn't translate safely to very old and well-seasoned parts. Torque wrenches and torque charts simply don't apply to our cars and attempting to force them to work together will frequently result in damage as you've discovered.
For head bolts, a standard issue 9-10" long cylinder head wrench and "pull tight" is enough. And if it isn't enough, you do it again. FWIW, every single factory wrench was JUST long enough that a 160# man working all day long pulling that wrench "tight" was enough torque for whatever nut/bolt it was assigned to.
Unfortunately "torqueing" things on a "T" will be a thing until every single hole in every single car has a helicoil in it. Then after that, we will begin tearing helicoils out. Facebook will see to that even if every single Forum Member sees the light.
hopefully that bad thread isn't located in the very back and is easy to get to! Good luck
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:26 pm
by Jerry VanOoteghem
A friend of mine had repeated problems with coolant in the oil. After 3 new head gaskets, and having the Z head re-decked, it was finally discovered that there was a crack in the Z head. It was only found by doing a pressure test on it. I did one of the head gasket replacements. I very closely visually examined the head before re-installing it and could not any defects whatsoever... but it was there. Three days later, coolant was low, oil level was high and looked like chocolate milk.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 1:51 am
by John_Aldrich
Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:09 pm
Easy does it, John. Torqueing a "T" head to 50# successfully without stripping a thread is simply pure luck and doing it over and over again on each head bolt really ups the odds of failure. 45 is pushing it and 50 is murder on the threads. FORD cast iron is soft stuff, especially the earliest cars, and 100 years later, the threads are no stronger than when new and modern torque values for new, modern materials doesn't translate safely to very old and well-seasoned parts. Torque wrenches and torque charts simply don't apply to our cars and attempting to force them to work together will frequently result in damage as you've discovered.
For head bolts, a standard issue 9-10" long cylinder head wrench and "pull tight" is enough. And if it isn't enough, you do it again. FWIW, every single factory wrench was JUST long enough that a 160# man working all day long pulling that wrench "tight" was enough torque for whatever nut/bolt it was assigned to.
Unfortunately "torqueing" things on a "T" will be a thing until every single hole in every single car has a helicoil in it. Then after that, we will begin tearing helicoils out. Facebook will see to that even if every single Forum Member sees the light.
hopefully that bad thread isn't located in the very back and is easy to get to! Good luck
I can get at it..
I'm a helicoil expert and even can do time serts...
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 7:57 am
by Mike Silbert
If the problem can't be found and the search has to step up a level make some adaptor plates and add pressure.
It does not have to be pretty, so make some plates to cover the water inlet and outlet holes.
Go into the scrap bin and get something, even some broken rear spring leaves are good enough.
The plate for the side of the block needs to cover the area and have 2 holes.
The head plate also needs a hole for an air fitting.
A gasket will give you a template for what you are making.
Seal them with RTV and then add SOME, only a little, regulated pressure. A few pounds like 2psi should be good to find where it is coming out.
Since it leaks water with zero PSI it won't need much.
If you don't feel like making the plates a bicycle inner tube between the inlet and outlet hose fittings can pressurize the block with a little air.
That also works on radiators (at super low pressure) also to verify leak repairs.
If you can't find the air coming out you can add some liquid and push it with the air but it gets more messy.
Going round and round looking for a problem is very frustrating and expensive.
I'd rather drive them than fix them.
Mike
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 10:49 am
by TXGOAT2
A problem must exist to be found.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 2:53 pm
by Mike Silbert
Pat,
While I agree that there is a possibility that John the original poster saw something minor and got worried about it.
Right or wrong he was worried enough to change the head gasket at least once.
It is also possible the block cracked, the head cracked, or something rusted through.
A leaking head gasket will put the water in the cylinder first before it gets to the oil due to no oil (supposed to be) above the rings.
No one has mentioned water in the cylinder before pulling the head.
At this point things have already changed and might be better and might be worse.
When you get stuck troubleshooting sometimes it is best to start back at the beginning and try to replicate the original problem.
Performing an ordinary leak test like you would on a gas system or propane line will tell you what the current status is.
If the coolant system is pressurized and it holds, then there is not currently a problem.
If the pressure drops then there is something to look for.
Its time to pick a test (and it does not have to be what I suggested) and see where the answer leads us.
My style is lots of tests and not throwing parts at problems, but it's not my car, time or money.
Mike
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 3:26 pm
by TXGOAT2
A gauge that reads in ounces would be useful.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 5:12 pm
by TXGOAT2
Combustion condensate will develop in the crankcase, not the upper cylinder or combustion space.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 8:40 pm
by JTT3
You said you have a 27 block Canadian block. If not mistaken those 26/7 blocks had some issues with cracks developing from the seat to the cylinder. If I’m wrong please excuse me. Best John
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 8:51 pm
by TXGOAT2
That's the word. Could it be related to the 2-row radiators?
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2026 12:54 pm
by John_Aldrich
JTT3 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 12, 2026 8:40 pm
You said you have a 27 block Canadian block. If not mistaken those 26/7 blocks had some issues with cracks developing from the seat to the cylinder. If I’m wrong please excuse me. Best John
What is the "seat"?
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2026 1:06 pm
by TXGOAT2
Valve seat, probably exhaust. On most engines, the exhaust valve seats nearest the center of the block or where two exhaust valves are adjacent to each other are most prone to cracking, but any of them can.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2026 1:51 pm
by John_Aldrich
TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 13, 2026 1:06 pm
Valve seat, probably exhaust. On most engines, the exhaust valve seats nearest the center of the block or where two exhaust valves are adjacent to each other are most prone to cracking, but any of them can.
Thanks
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2026 2:09 pm
by RVA23T
Seat cracks on a 26/27 block.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2026 2:13 pm
by TXGOAT2
.....Perhaps the seats cracked due to running a lot of miles with leaking valves. Those valves are extremely burned, and the seats have been exposed to extreme temperatures due to being blasted by hot gases under high pressure.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2026 3:12 pm
by John_Aldrich
RVA23T wrote: ↑Tue Jan 13, 2026 2:09 pm
Seat cracks on a 26/27 block.
YIKES! I'll take a look but my valves are in much better shape!
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2026 5:12 pm
by TXGOAT2
Chronic late timing, chronic lean mixture due to operator error or leaking intake gaskets, and poor seating due to too little valve lash or poor seating due to improper valve to seat fit will allow valves to burn or warp. Continuing to run the engine will cause the problem to get worse, and can lead to thinks like cracked seats, or lost valve heads on two piece valves. Detonation under load can occur with overheating valves, and if it does, it will rapidly accelerate the problems.
Carbon can also affect valve seating and lead to valve burning.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2026 10:02 am
by Dan Hatch
Read Joe Bell thread. Can’t tell you how many I have seen cracked in valve chamber. Usually around the valve guide. Need to pressure test the engine to find. Good luck. Dan
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2026 10:48 am
by hah
Is the valve area hard to repair?
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2026 10:54 am
by TXGOAT2
As I understand it, the engine (presumably) had no serious issues prior to replacing the transmission. A wet dipstick was observed immediately after the car was put back together and started. That doesn't rule out a crack, but it would seem to me that a crack is unlikely. Condensation, on the other hand, is very likely, whether from the high ambient moisture or from combustion condensate, or both. No mention has been made of antifreeze in the crankcase, and no mention has been made of free water in the crankcase.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2026 10:59 am
by TXGOAT2
How hard a crack, if present, would be to repair would have to be assessed on a case by case examination. It may or may not be practical to repair a crack. There is a wide variety of crack repair methods, from professional jobs such as metal stitching to a great many "shade tree" solutions and miracles in a bottle.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2026 3:54 pm
by John_Aldrich
TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:05 pm
Are the bolts too short? It's important that they aren't too long, but too short is also verboten A bolt without enough reach to engage most of the threads is likely to strip threads in the block. There are some detailed discussion threads on head bolt issues. The Z head may require longer than stock bolts. Some old blocks have corroded or worn threads, or debris packed in the bottom of the bolt holes.
Purchased head bolts specifically for the aluminum head for all my cars.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2026 3:58 pm
by John_Aldrich
TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 14, 2026 10:54 am
As I understand it, the engine (presumably) had no serious issues prior to replacing the transmission. A wet dipstick was observed immediately after the car was put back together and started. That doesn't rule out a crack, but it would seem to me that a crack is unlikely. Condensation, on the other hand, is very likely, whether from the high ambient moisture or from combustion condensate, or both. No mention has been made of antifreeze in the crankcase, and no mention has been made of free water in the crankcase.
You are correct. Engine was rebuilt by Steve Tomaso and has given me years of trouble free service.
I like the condensation theory.
The comment about stripped head bolt threads is dead on the money. I've pulled the engine because the 2 in the very back stripped on me.
Re: Water in the Oil
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2026 5:30 pm
by Allan
A customer for whom I rebuilt a short motor installed a Z head himself, with washers as required., and stripped two bolts doing so. I supplied him with replacement bolts form a GM 6 cylinder Holden motor. These are over length, have rolled threads and necked down shanks which are handy in alloy heads. I advised him to clean out all the bolt holes in the block and helicoil any that were suspect. These replacement bolts are too long as supplied, so each needs to be trimmed just enough the get maximum thread engagement. I advise fitting the head with no gasket when trimming the bolts. That way, when the gasket is fitted there will be clearance at the bottom of the holes
The real cause was the variation in deck height on the Z head, another reason the use a Prus head.
Allan from down under.