Page 1 of 1

Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:32 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
As you may know, Ron Patterson and I are writing a book on the Hand Cranked Coil Tester (HCCT).
I am researching serial numbers on the Ford HCCT.
The Ford HCCT can be identified by the Part/Serial number stamped on the base (see photo below).
It may be on the right or left side.
We would like to know the serial number of your unit and if it is on the right or left side as viewed from the front.
A photo would be helpful but not necessary.

The book is nearly complete.
It is over 90 pages and has nearly 200 photos and illustrations.

Thanks for your help

.
18Z245.jpg

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:51 pm
by dykker5502
FWIW - my danish HCCT do not have any numbers or any markings at all, neither brassplates or holes after such.

Frontview:
P2030010.JPG
Detail view of instrument face (all danish text - made by/delivered by HM = Helweg Mikkelsen, a major danish instrument/gauge maker.
2019-10-23 19.21.20.jpg

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:04 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
Michael,

Is that a mark under the band on the coil box?

Untitled.jpg
Untitled.jpg (15.53 KiB) Viewed 4638 times

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:45 pm
by AndyClary
Here is my hcct awaiting restoration. It has the same part number as your example. Facing the front it is on the left side of the base. It has a pulley on the back that looks like it’s never seen a belt. It came with a Weston meter. Thanks for the work at preserving this information.

Andy

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:06 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
Andy,

That is an original Ford HCCT.
The Pulley on the back is unique to the Original Ford unit.
Thank you for your response to our request.
It is very helpful.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:11 pm
by Dave S
Mine is the same number shown on the first picture. It is stamped on the right side.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:09 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
Thank you Dave.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:58 am
by david_dewey
With multiple responses indicating having the same "serial" number, is it possible that is a Ford Tool Number?

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:36 am
by BE_ZERO_BE
18Z245 is the tool number listed in Ford documents.
The 18Z245N180 is hand stamped on the base.
The "N180 suffix is not consistent with other cast-in part numbers.
For example, 18Z245 B is cast into the spark ring.
There are no known drawings in the Ford archives for the 18Z245 tool.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:55 am
by Dom Denio
Bob,

The red circle in your earlier post shows an outline shadow on the coil holder box that looks similar in shape to the KR Wilson decal pictured below.

Thanks to you and Ron for your support of our hobby members,
Dom Denio
KR Wilson Decal.docx
(21.48 KiB) Downloaded 87 times

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:51 am
by keen25
Hi, Will the book have a how to section on the restoration, calibration and maintenance of the HCCT? I am sorry about being a pain. Thank you for your work on this.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:15 am
by Ron Patterson
YES

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:45 am
by BE_ZERO_BE
Dom,

They are not the same.
.
Not Same.jpg

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:14 pm
by Les Burg
Bob, I can't find any stamped numbers on either side, but it has the 18Z245 cast into the backside of the mainframe.
It has been painted sometime in its life and that may be hiding the hand-stamped markings?
Hope this helps.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:35 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
Les,

Could you post a photo of the cast "18Z245"?

Thanks,
Bob

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:28 pm
by GG Gregory
I want a copy of the book ! I have a KR WILSON and a Allen that I'd like to get going.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:00 pm
by Les Burg
Bob, I meant to say back of "spark ring" There something cast in the mainframe, near the bottom of it I will take the flywheel off and see if I can make it out, it is really faint. Hope this helps

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:24 pm
by BHarper
I have one which is somewhat buried at this moment. I will dig my way to it tomorrow and look for a number.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:49 am
by BE_ZERO_BE
Les,
Thank you for the photo. It does help.

Bill,
Thanks for taking the time to help us.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:56 pm
by Les Burg
Bob, I disassembled it in order to get a view of the mainframe and found what I think is a pattern number which is very distorted, you can see the outline of the tag and the fasteners holding it to the pattern (I’m not good at taken pictures) the only visible number is “18” on the left side and maybe a “4” on the right side.
I did strip the paint on both sides and still, no hand stamped numbers.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
I know it doesn't matter in dating it, but it does have a “DB” flywheel on it.
Les

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:33 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
Les,
Thank you for the photos.
The lack of a hand stamped number on the side of the base indicates that this is probably one of the early Fairbanks-Morse copies.
Does this one have a pulley on the back of the flywheel?

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:08 pm
by Les Burg
Bob, yes it has the pulley.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:47 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
If it has a pulley - It's a most likely a Ford unit.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:47 pm
by BHarper
Well, I did make my way out to where my HCCT is currently in storage. I could not make out any numbers on either side of the base of the machine. It has been painted and that may be obscuring any markings. Sorry.

I did take a picture of it. I hope this is of some use. Thank you gentlemen for undertaking the project of writing a book on the HCCT, Bill



HCCT Lenny's 100_6835a.jpg

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:34 am
by BE_ZERO_BE
Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to help.
That looks like Service Station Equipment Company (SSECO) unit.

Bob

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:13 am
by dykker5502
HA! You have just found the danish manufacturer/dealers nameplate! I havn't noticed that before!
Løwener_Skilt.jpg
No numbers or identification. I've tried to find the logo:
W. Løwener_Logo.jpg
W. Løwener_Logo.jpg (24.73 KiB) Viewed 4078 times
The figure in the middle is a lion in front of what probably back then was their main product - a lathe.

The delivered all the Ford special tools to the dealers and shops in Denmark and possibly the rest of Scandinavia.

They are still in the business, now with an updated logo:
W. Løwener_Nyt_Logo.jpg
W. Løwener_Nyt_Logo.jpg (12.77 KiB) Viewed 4078 times
https://loewener.dk/en/

Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:36 pm
by Dropacent
I’m hoping the person who bought my HCCT responds to this. It is probably the nicest original machine I’ve seen personally, and it was a joy to be the caretaker for a long time, I believe it is a Fairbanks-Morse unit from what I have read over the years. It is very book worthy, IMHO Thanks for these efforts. Might you fellows know where these particular units were made and sold? There is a beautiful old Fairbanks building in the south side of Chicago, and always wondered if connected. I know they made and sold a lot of stuff. Thanks!

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:39 pm
by Ron Patterson
Michael
Great find and thank you for bringing it to our attention.
That should make a good inclusion to the Danish section of the HCCT Manual.
Ron Patterson

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:00 pm
by Jsteele
Bob your suspicions were correct. Sorry for the poor picture that posted upside down. It does right itself when clicked on. I started to take it out in the sunlight but after about 15 feet my back said something different. :) 18Z245N180

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:31 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
John,
That confirms our suspicion that "N180" is not a serial number.
We have found at least five occurrences of "N180".
Thank you for your help.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:56 am
by keen25
I am curious, did he early HCCT manufactures or Ford patent their devices?

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:15 am
by Ron Patterson
Eric
Be patient, the complete story of the genesis, evolution and derivations of the HCCT will be told in the upcoming Model T Ford Club of America publication entitled "HCCT Handbook" that will be available soon.
It will be 90+ pages of information about early HCCT development, the story of how Ford made the first commercially available HCCT's and how to identify, including photos, of the many different types of HCCT's made by other manufacturers. Restoration details and parts sources.
Probably more details than you ever wanted to now about the HCCT?

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:02 pm
by CVSJCS
looking for more numbers

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:32 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
The number would be stamped on the side of the base like the first photo in this thread.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:39 pm
by CVSJCS
I use a flat file to scrape and didn't see any numbers of either side of the base?!?!?!

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:22 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
Jeff,
This could be one of the early Fairbanks copies.
They were produced without the hand stamped part numbers.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:48 am
by J1MGOLDEN
My HCCT has the pulley, like Les has shown in his photos, and all the numbers cast in the frame, pulley, and spark ring, but no serial number on the side.

The heavier spark ring on Bill's unit is a giveaway that it is a Service Station Equipment Company HCCT.

My SSE spark ring was brass with 16 deep grooves cut into it.

The one Les has could be an earlier unit, or have a replacement "Home Built" spark ring, or have it on wrong side out.

Over the years, many people have made the mistake of using the spark ring for a carry handle and ended up with a two piece spark ring.

The brass is kind of thin where the bolts go through and make an easy break area there,

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:48 pm
by namdc3
Am I to gather from the above that the part number and N180 in the side of the base and a pulley on the back does not indicate an original Ford unit since N180 isn’t evidently a SN? Ron used to post that Ford units had “SNxxxx” hand stamped in the base. I assume it’s in this location, as well? In other words, these N180 units are early outsourced ones, and it has to have “SNxxxx” to be a Ford?

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:59 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
Original Ford HCCTs have 18Z245N180 hand stamped on the side of the base.
18Z245-A, -B, -C, etc. is cast into the various parts of the HCCT (base, spark ring, pulley, etc.) on Ford and some non-Ford units.
It's all explained in the book.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:02 pm
by namdc3
Ok, so no "SNxxxx". How about the pulley on the back - I gather all Ford ones had it, but some early outsourced ones did, too? (and, yes, I will be buying a book).

To be even more specific in your statement, do you mean ONLY Ford units had the number stamped in the base? I.e., all outsourced units (F-M) did not? I.e., an original stamping there says it for sure is Ford?

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:23 am
by BE_ZERO_BE
To the best of my knowledge, only the original Ford produced units had the hand stamped 18Z245N180.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:53 am
by namdc3
Bob, thank you for this information. If you could tolerate one more question, what is the story on some units having the pointer/electrode straight opposite the crank handle and others having it at 90 degrees to the crank handle? I stole one photo from above (on a 18Z245N180 stamped unit) and the other from this post (http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1538095738) (also a 18Z245N180 stamped unit).

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:38 pm
by namdc3
I understand now that those are two pieces with individual set screws. Handle can be removed when operating with pulley. Makes sense.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:02 pm
by BE_ZERO_BE
namdc3 is correct.
That's an observation I did not make.

Re: Looking for Ford HCCT Serial Numbers

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:01 pm
by namdc3
It’s interesting that the manual doesn’t mention the pulley. I wonder if this manual is slightly later after discontinuation of the pulley, or if the pulley was actually used by Ford to qualify the HCCT itself prior to its use. I have no idea other than guesses.
http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/unknown-y ... d-hcct.pdf