MTFCA Forum

Has anybody ever added an air filter set up to there car? did they offer any thru accessories? just wondering. maybe some pics of peoples set up if they did?

Filters are available from the suppliers. Very easy installation. I don't think Ford ever offered any.

If you search the forum for air filter you will find many posts about them, I run them on all of my cars, I am a retired auto mechanic and I just can't run without one. I have never noticed even a little bit of difference in how they run with and without the filters and I feel much better with one. I also run in the dirt a lot.

Huge debate on air filters on both sides. Some claim they are not original, restrict air flow and not needed.
I personally have air filters on all my T’s and A’s and have done so for 33 years. I don’t spend 15k-30k on each of my old cars to have them sucking in dust from the back roads I drive. Even my cheap 150 dollar push mower has a air filter…..
Look at 3-4 of the parts catalogs for ideas.

I think the filters sold today are adequate, but they do interfere with a heat stove installation. I'd like to adapt a Donaldson type dry filter and mount it on the radiator stay rod and run a pipe down to the carburetor, somewhat like an 8 N Ford tractor breather pipe. A pipe within a pipe arrangement would allow for some type of heat stove device.

If you do run a filter, keep it clean and unrestricted. The T carburetor does not have a compensated bowl vent, and a restrictive filter will make the engine run richer. You can lean out the carburetor adjustment to prevent this, but power will be reduced.

Sound great! I have some old small air cleaners in my parts pile that have been waiting for something. One looks like it would belong on it. Think it’s off a 53 studebaker I am also an agricultural farm mechanic. The thought of the dust makes me choke a little. Maybe a cyclone type?

These show several ones:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1356751887
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1471993920
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1471806969
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80 ... 1246027975
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1521158293

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:28 pm

I think the filters sold today are adequate, but they do interfere with a heat stove installation. I'd like to adapt a Donaldson type dry filter and mount it on the radiator stay rod and run a pipe down to the carburetor, somewhat like an 8 N Ford tractor breather pipe. A pipe within a pipe arrangement would allow for some type of heat stove device.

I found with this type filter which is against the hogs head a heater isn't needed. http://www.modeltford.com/item/CARB-FILT.aspx

I like this one! Looks proper

carry a fire extinguisher

one backfire after a normal over-choking of the carb and you'll be glad you had it near by.

No one lives on a dustier road, or has more dusty roads that HAVE to be driven on just to get to pavement than me and there are no filters on any of my four cars. Yes, they stop dust from getting in. And yet, with no air cleaner on them, ever, two of my cars still have original bores with original cast iron pistons. While I agree that they will stop dust, there has never to my knowledge, been any study or proof that an engine rebuilt today will last longer than the 95+ years that these two cars have lasted thus far without air cleaners.

The longer you own these things the less you worry about re-inventing them, though generally speaking, there are always worry-warts that can't leave well enough alone - they're easy to spot on tour as they frequently get home early on a trouble-trailer.

this is one I have. Not very restricted. Not sure how the guts work but looks like it has multiple tubes. Maybe it hooked to a heat stove somehow?

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:14 pm

carry a fire extinguisher

one backfire after a normal over-choking of the carb and you'll be glad you had it near by.

No one lives on a dustier road, or has more dusty roads that HAVE to be driven on just to get to pavement than me and there are no filters on any of my four cars. Yes, they stop dust from getting in. And yet, with no air cleaner on them, ever, two of my cars still have original bores with original cast iron pistons. While I agree that they will stop dust, there has never to my knowledge, been any study or proof that an engine rebuilt today will last longer than the 95+ years that these two cars have lasted thus far without air cleaners.

The longer you own these things the less you worry about re-inventing them, though generally speaking, there are always worry-warts that can't leave well enough alone - they're easy to spot on tour as they frequently get home early on a trouble-trailer.

“Whoa boy whoa easy easy” don’t fret it’s just my nature. If it was 1926 and my car was new I would be doing the same things. Iam pretty sure the only reason it didn’t have an air cleaner was to save costs so the car could be cheaper. We have 1920s Fordsons with a cyclone type set up and they spent all there time in the dirt. Funny part is there “inventor” was the same man. Iam not trying to re invent anything, just having fun doing what I love!

I've run with a carburetor stove and a filter I bought from Langs. I would think keeping dust out of the carb and engine would be a good thing but have no proof that the filter improves engine longevity. What I did observe is that changing from a stove to a filter changed my gas mileage from 15 mpg to a fraction over 19 mpg. In both cases I adjusted the mixture to make the engine run smoothly.

Aircraft have what is called carb heat. Pull a knob and you bypass the air filter and duct hot air into the carb. Proof that it's working is that the engine speed drops 100 rpm or so because the hot air enrichens the mixture.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:14 pm

carry a fire extinguisher

one backfire after a normal over-choking of the carb and you'll be glad you had it near by.

No one lives on a dustier road, or has more dusty roads that HAVE to be driven on just to get to pavement than me and there are no filters on any of my four cars. Yes, they stop dust from getting in. And yet, with no air cleaner on them, ever, two of my cars still have original bores with original cast iron pistons. While I agree that they will stop dust, there has never to my knowledge, been any study or proof that an engine rebuilt today will last longer than the 95+ years that these two cars have lasted thus far without air cleaners.

The longer you own these things the less you worry about re-inventing them, though generally speaking, there are always worry-warts that can't leave well enough alone - they're easy to spot on tour as they frequently get home early on a trouble-trailer.

The more I drive mine the more I believe this is true! Had about 300 miles on the Crappie reaper, had a screwdriver, pliers and a piece of wire. Got all prepared for a benefit ride. Packed a new tool bag with all necessary tools and extras according to our forum. Yup, hauled her home!

So how many miles are actually on a 90-100 year old model T? An internet search shows that an average male in 2020 drives approximately 16.5k a year. That calculates to 1485000miles at 90 years and 1650000 at 100 yrs. that’s assuming they are faithfully driving that amount for the 90-100 yrs. I think it’s safe to say that a modern automobile driving at those rates with no air cleaner might not make it that long. I think it’s also safe to assume that the average surviving model T probably spent a considerable amount of the 90-100 years not being a daily driver. It doesn’t take a study to understand that dust entering the engine will with out a doubt wear it out over time. Weather you run an air cleaner or not is solely up to the owner. I have no problems with either decision. There were hundreds of accessories made for the model T. Trying to think of our own in my opinion is nostalgically correct. My intentions of the air cleaner topic was to see what folks have come up with. Maybe see some pictures. Thanks to all who participated positively

Bryant, listen to Scott Conger’s advice.

Ed Fuller wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:57 pm

Bryant, listen to Scott Conger’s advice.

You may have missed the point. The topic is about air cleaners. If you want to start a anti air cleaner topic than do so. I promise you I won’t rain on your parade

duplicate post. sorry.

Eric

Bryant wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Ed Fuller wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:57 pm

Bryant, listen to Scott Conger’s advice.

You may have missed the point. The topic is about air cleaners. If you want to start a anti air cleaner topic than do so. I promise you I won’t rain on your parade

You may have missed the point. Scott’s post included a safety warning about adding an air cleaner. Adding one does seem like a fun thing to do, with no obvious downside. However, be advised that adding an air cleaner does increase the risk of catching your T on fire. Perhaps the nostalgia is worth it. Like you said, it’s a personal choice. But the choice should be an informed choice…

Eric

ewdysar wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:23 am

Bryant wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Ed Fuller wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:57 pm

Bryant, listen to Scott Conger’s advice.

You may have missed the point. The topic is about air cleaners. If you want to start a anti air cleaner topic than do so. I promise you I won’t rain on your parade

You may have missed the point. Scott’s post included a safety warning about adding an air cleaner. Adding one does seem like a fun thing to do, with no obvious downside. However, be advised that adding an air cleaner does increase the risk of catching your T on fire. Perhaps the nostalgia is worth it. Like you said, it’s a personal choice. But the choice should be an informed choice…

Eric

Ok part of the reason I’m here is for information. So my question is if there is a backfire wouldn’t an air cleaner suppress the flame? What happens when there is no air cleaner? Does it blow ignited fuel all over the manifold/firewall? This is my first T so I can admit I don’t know how they act. My experience comes mostly from antique tractors. All having some form of cleaner. For the record I never mentioned if I would run one or not. As I mentioned Iam solely looking for examples of what people have tried or are using. Not to be condemned by the idea police.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:14 pm

carry a fire extinguisher

one backfire after a normal over-choking of the carb and you'll be glad you had it near by.

No one lives on a dustier road, or has more dusty roads that HAVE to be driven on just to get to pavement than me and there are no filters on any of my four cars. Yes, they stop dust from getting in. And yet, with no air cleaner on them, ever, two of my cars still have original bores with original cast iron pistons. While I agree that they will stop dust, there has never to my knowledge, been any study or proof that an engine rebuilt today will last longer than the 95+ years that these two cars have lasted thus far without air cleaners.

The longer you own these things the less you worry about re-inventing them, though generally speaking, there are always worry-warts that can't leave well enough alone - they're easy to spot on tour as they frequently get home early on a trouble-trailer.

Scott, I never used an air filter in the last 15 years but your point scare me It diddn't gave me the taste to try it... Just for my knowledge, is it apply to all air filter ? Also the one Lang's have? https://www.modeltford.com/item/CARB-FILT.aspx

Perhaps some have been watching too much Hollywood where someone flicks a cigarette at a gas tank with the cap removed and the car explodes. It won’t happen in reality, but it makes for good special effects!

The MOST "debugged" car on the planet was/is the Model T. Every production problem that they had were well known and documented during the T era. Now most of that info has been ignored since clearly everyone assumes that "today's modernization" of the T would solve all the same problem but in a better way.... Think again.

At a tour recently and saw a brass era touring car where the owner had cut a rectangular hole in the top just in front of the drivers head. In that hole was some sort of Solar Cell with wires disappearing down the windshield post that were taped to the underside of the top. The car was not able to run at the time. A man there said it was a bad coil or bad distributor. He said the owner tried 3 coils purchased locally but all did the same thing... car would not start nor even fire. The owner was positive it was the ignition coil and was on his way to buy yet another one (#4??). I watched how the owner was testing it and he was only measuring voltage on the distributor side of the coil and when he saw it was 12V when the points were open and 0V when the points were closed he stated the coil was energized but would not produce a spark. When he left to go get another coil I went to my car and got my analog volt meter. I measured the voltage on the coil same way except I left the meter on the BATTERY side of the coil and noted that when the points closed then BOTH sides of the coil went to 0V caused by the ignition switch mounted elsewhere not providing good contact to battery 12V+. He was using a wooden box coil box on this brass car but it was empty since he had converted to distributor. I took one of my meter leads and bridged the switch by connecting the lower 2 coil box connections together under the hood. They were the only coil box connections that had wires on them. I asked his buddy to roll the starter and the car started up immediately. I removed the jumper wire and suggested to the driver's friend that the problem was in the wood coil box front panel switch or wiring. I saw it running the next day so I guess he didn't swap the coil out but was stuck with 3 other coils probably due to the "NO EXCHANGE" policy that electrical items bring with them and you really can't blame dealers for that. Clearly this was an example of a "fix" that was not mentioned in the T list of reasons why the car would not start.

Most air filters have at least some flame arresting effect. I'm not sure about the foam type ones, but I use a foam type filter and have had some carburetor back firing issues (timer adjustment) and the car did not catch fire and the filter was not damaged. The best filter would probably be a ring-shaped pleated paper type with screen wire on the inside of the filter ring. One of these, mounted using an elbow and riser pipe to elevate the filter up to about the level of the cylinder head, would make a good installation. A fuel weep hole at the carburetor inlet would be needed to prevent pooling in case of overchoking or a leaky float valve. I've seen some Marvel-type updraft installations, like a Ford 8N tractor, that have a fuel drain hole with a plug made of an porous, Oilite-type material. The porous material allows gasoline to leak off but keeps dirt and bugs out. Any leaked gasoline drips to the ground, just as on a regualr Ford T installation. I'd think an 8N tractor filter assembly would work very well on a Model T, if you could find room to mount it properly.

The Ford did have lots of aftermarket tries for air cleaners. Of course the Fordson Tractor used a water filled bath air 'washer' to remove particles of dirt and heavy dust from farming, but also added moisture to the intake air to help avoid pre-ignition and help vaporization and combustion. Each day the farmer had to drain that tank of muddy water.

With the Ford, the hot air pipe helps prevent heavy dirt particles from entering, plus the engine pans do some of that too. On my T's the use of both likely provides enough protection on today's roads. I off-road on dirt at times, but the dust is kicked up out the back. Fresh air is pouring over the engine from the radiator, that is high above the dirt road, with the engine pans, any dusty air exits low out the rear of the motor, and down. The hot air pipe entrance is high up on the exhaust manifold too.

For the one time I owned a Model A, I did place that accessory alum. body screen mesh wire air filter, seemed reasonable.

As for use of anything other than wire mesh or screen or these early ones that used channels and/or spinning action to throw dirt to the sides of these devices, IMO, could be concern.

I will agree with Scott on fire or flame. With gasoline vapor, there is high risk for combustion. The Ford carbs are 'puddle' carbs with the bowl full of gas, any excess fluid gas from over choke or backfire will exit the carb, at low side straight out. If the air cleaner isn't metal, that is a concern for me. A foam filter or a paper filter will absorb the liquid gasoline, and lay in waiting for some untoward issue to happen. Most foam or paper carb air filters are above the carb in modern use, the T isn't modern in that respect.

Thank you TXGoat2 and Thank you Dantreace
Well written, informative, productive. Love to seeing those accessories from the past!

About 10 years ago I ask an old mechanic in our town how often did you have to overhaul Model T's and A's because they didn't have air cleaners. He told me that they had to overhaul them pretty often.