MTFCA Forum

My wife has finally seen through the ruse. “I don’t know exactly what patina is and frankly, dear, I don’t care.
This is rust and cracked old paint and I’m not riding in the T until it’s painted.” So there you have it. Body shops around here won’t touch it. So, it looks like I’m going to venture into uncharted waters here and at least consider doing it myself.
Conceptually I understand the process but in practice…no.
So any thoughts, suggestions, prayers as how I might go about this would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Craig Bothwell

I'm no painter, but painting is the end game. Paint preparation is where the job is made or broken. Patience and elbow grease.
If you can do prep properly, you might find a professional painter willing to do the actual painting at a reduced cost compared to the whole job.

The best way is to remove the front and rear fenders plus the splash aprons. Now you would have good access to the body so you can start sanding and cleaning up the body itself.

The reason to remove the fenders is they need to painted on both sides. If you don’t do that your new paint job won’t look good because the unpainted undersides will really show. Clean up and sand each fender and paint them later.

Surface preparation is 90% of a good job.
You could have a body shop just clean up the sheet metal and then paint it without taking the fenders off but that’s not recommended. It just won’t look right in my opinion. Others will have their opinion for sure.
I would at least try to learn to prepare an old fender or a piece of flat tin of some sort to learn to paint. You can do it. Go to Harbour freight and buy a HVLP spray gun and it will do a good as job as any BUT do learn to paint before you start on your car. A question would be if you have an air compressor because you will need one. Hope this will help and others will give their suggestions.
And as mentioned you can do all the prep work yourself then take the car and the fenders and have them do the painting. But do remember that surface preparation is the key and again practice on some old sheet metal fenders or a flat piece of tin. You’ll be surprised how good you can get with practice. First determine what you will need in equipment and go from there.

It is all about the preparation of the metal for painting. It should be taken down to bare metal, repairs made as necessary, clean, clean, clean, then most use an epoxy primer. Then hours of block sanding until your hands are so arthritic you can't even move them. Then you start thinking about the final, shiny coat.

Sounds discouraging, eh? Well, if you have to hire someone to do all that it is expensive. I long ago gave up grinding off old paint and rust. I take the sheet metal to a professional metal cleaning outfit and get a media blast down to bare metal. Make sure they are a professional metal cleaning outfit, not some guy with a sandblasting outfit more fit for blasting a bridge or other heavy iron. Look for a metal cleaning outfit, it will save you untold hours of time.

Depending where you are, you might find a local guy who might be sympathetic to you and help you out with painting. Don't bother with the commercial shops, they probably won't take the work at any price.

Short answer is yes, you can do it. As stated above though, when doing it yourself you understand why a (good) paint job is so expensive. It is exceedingly labor intensive.
Chiming in with agreement on what others posted:
90% is all in the prep. Removing anything/everything that can be individually prepped/painted will make it easier.
The prep is KEY to a successful paint job. Sanding (in stages of grit, dry vs wet), repair, cleaning & tacking is all critical.

Your next task is education. Primer vs topcoat, what kind of paint to choose, and the requirements re proper mixing/thinning/filtering as well as proper (and timely!) cleaning of your equipment. Read read read.

Next are your tools. Do you have a compressor & guns? Compressor for paint is all about cfm...a little portable is NOT gonna cut it. Today's HVLP guns are better than yesterday's siphon guns, but each has their own requirements. Paint guns, like anything else is a quality = cost issue. Next is respirators, goggles etc...don't compromise!!! Spray paint in a paint booth is thicker and nastier than fog.

Then comes your work space...making your paint booth, how to prep, how to ventilate, hazards to avoid (pilot lights!).

Then comes actual technique. It's very easy to gob it on to the point of runs. Thin initial tack coats followed by thicker final coats helps to mitigate, but takes practice. Not starting or stopping spray on the piece & proper overlap.. What kind of a finish are you after? Budget down & dirty, or mirror gets you into color sanding between coats. Basic black or color? Clear coats? List goes on.
Watch some YouTube videos.

So again, yes you can...even if it sounds daunting, it isn't. Lots of work? YES!!! Need proper equipment? YES! Having a clear understanding of required steps/prep? Yes. Having patience and a little practice? Yes.

I actually painted a car to make it look like patina! I sprayed dark gray laquer primer on it to look like faded paint and then fogged on some red oxide primer to look like rust!
Norm

Craig,

I had zero experience painting cars before I restored two Model Ts. Both paint jobs turned out very well with a very low cash outlay. I did have the fenders and splash aprons professionally stripped by a low pressure, high volume media blasting place. This is NOT sandblasting. They did a great job and zero metal deformation, even on very thin 1911 flat fenders. Everything else I did myself. I described what I did in this posting. I reread it to remind me how to do it when it was time to paint the second car!

Good luck. If you are willing to color sand and buff, you can end up with a very nice looking paint job.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6764&p=52083&hilit= ... ons#p51027

As far as getting a great paint job I would use a primer with a single stage paint since this would be your first nice paint job. Single stage doesn’t need a color coat or a clear coat and less labor involved than color with clear coat. OTHERS WILL HAVE THEIR OWN PREFERENCE AND PROBABLY DISAGREE but there are some nice T paint jobs out there with single stage paint! It’s much more forgiving using a single stage.
A good single stage paint is much easier to repair the runs or mistakes than a two stage. It’s been said on the forum many times a single stage job can give a really nice job. There is a tendency to get the best paint job you can get from a shop but it’s really expensive with the extra work using more than a single stage.
It will buff out super nice if you want to go that far with it too. Again the key is that surface prep is 90% of a great job.

I totally agree with John's last post. Single stage paints are easy to use, qhicker drying and more forgiving if corrections are needed.

If you go down the track of doing all the prep work your self and then having a pro paint the finish coats, you'd better consult with him first so your base work materials are compatible.

Allan from down under.

If appeasing the wife with as little expense and effort is the goal. . .

Grab a gallon of rustoleum gloss black. Scruff up the flat areas and rust, degrease and clean the rest (oil eater is a good degreaser). Tape/mask off what you don't want painted and use a cheap harbor freight help gun and spray it on. You may need to thin depending on your compressor. NOT a good repaint but should be more than enough to make her happy.

Spraying like this isn't hard, my 9 year old did my trailer yesterday

Check out this post and the single stage paint jobs. https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=43727

All patina says to me is I can’t afford a paint job. I don’t glorify it.

A single stage job would probably look a lot closer to what a new T would have looked like. A single stage finish can be brought to a high shine, if desired, and if repairs become necessary, it would be easier with the single stage. Ts almost all have some irregularities in the sheet metal, such as where the front fender brace is riveted on the later models. Another thing to consider is the lack of fender welting and rubber pads and insulators that later cars usually have. It's difficult to avoid some chafing and rubbing around the hood latches and hinges, and the door edges tend to chafe on the body. Painted running board surfaces are subject to scuffing and scratches in normal service.

Patina is something I have to comment on.
First I have to say, do what makes you happy. As long as you are not destroying the car, go for it.

Second, I am known for patina. While I can and have worked on show winning paint jobs they dont excite me. I dont want trophies or to worry about messing it up. I typically fix what is needed and go have fun. I love driving and not sanding. I have only so much time and time spent on pretty paint is not fun.
For those that say I cant afford it are wrong. It is a personal choice for me.
In today's society we are stuck on the incorrect idea that looks have anything to do with functionality. Every couple years someone at an event will ask me how I got my ugly car there. They do not understand it runs till I grab the crank and she fires right up and purrs like a kitten.
My seat covers are feed sacks to tell the story of feed sack uses during the depression.
When I park @ a show my ugly car has a crowd around it while much nicer cars have only a few. I want people to come talk Model Ts to spark an interest and future drivers.
Plus the dogs dont care, they get a ride and probably ice cream.

Some cars need a good high quality paint job and I have some of these type also.
But patina cars are just more fun.
And they are only original once, the rest is something else.
Mike

Depends also upon what year your T is. All but the last two years have sheetmetal body panels attached to a wood frame. It is necessary to remove the sheetmetal to clean and prime the area behind between the wood and metal. That is an area where water tends to collect and will rust through the metal. So be sure all is cleaned and primed even behind the wood. A few of the very earliest cars have wood panels. While you are at it, check out the wood for rot and termites. If they are present, it is best to replace the wood as well.
Norm

Anything you can remove and lay flat will take paint a lot better. Such as the fenders and doors. Horizontal surfaces will not run as easily so not as much care needs to be taken to limit the amount of sprayed paint to avoid runs. Vertical surfaces are much trickier as too much sprayed paint will cause runs, so several thinner coats can alleviate this problem. If a run does start, don’t try to correct it while the paint is wet, let it dry thoroughly and try and slice the run flat with a razor blade, then lightly sand only the remaining raised portion until flat with the surrounding paint. Isolate the run by masking closely with 2” masking tape around the run will make this easier.

Having an air compressor is not enough. You also need an air/oil separator and a water separator on the line to the spray gun. I agree with pretty much everything that John Kuehn said. Take things apart as much as is possible (or practical). If you paint the car with the fenders on, if you ever have to take one off, it will probably leave or take some of the paint on the body or fender with it. I am of the opinion that if it's not worth doing right, it's not worth doing. I realize that you don't have a complete restoration in mind, but I'll promise you that if you don't take the extra pains to come as close as you can to perfect, you will be kicking yourself in the butt later.

I painted this car with a foam roller. But..,that’s the look I was going for.

Craig,
from what you described in your first post, your not necessarily wanting a pristine show car but what you need is a nice Model T driver. A driver T in Model T lingo is that your T looks and runs good but it’s not a pristine show car that the owner dusts off every 15-30 minutes and spent tons of money for the outcome.

Suggestions like using a foam roller, Rustoleum black appliance paint, or even going to the trouble of a single stage paint job will be good enough for your car.

You can remove the fenders as suggested, then sand the fenders and body as best you can and maybe remove any dents or bump them out the best you can. If the surface preparation is good it will come out OK. All of our suggestions can be confusing and it’s your car to be happy with. The only person that really counts is you and your wife and if she’s pleased with how you painted your car your OK!

Yes. You are correct. The suggestion has been made that a high quality rattle can paint could be an option. Your thoughts?

Research paint that has epoxy in the name. Epoxy paint will chalk when exposed to sunlight.

When I was much younger, I new a gentleman from Newton, MA by the name of Frank Gardner. He had no money problems, and had several beautiful Brass era high-end automobiles of very close to 100-point condition.; including a pre-1910 Crane-Simplex that is now in the Heritage Plantation Museum in Sandwich MA. (As an aside, if you are ever in the area, I recommend you visit it. It's not huge, but makes up for that in the Quality of the cars on display. All but one are runners.) He painted a model A with enamel and a brush (several brushes, actually). You could not tell that it wasn't a well-done spray booth job.

If you want to be original while your at it......
Flow painting --
OR This gives a good idea what they did back in the day

Just leave your wife at home. Or at least have a truthful conversation with her before you paint it. Theres a good chance she's really telling you she doesn't want to go. After you paint it, she may say then that there's not enough leg room, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's too windy, doesn't this thing have a top, or are we there yet....

Flow painting would be fun, just need a big enough resevoir up above, a huge tank to do it over, and enough plumbing parts to make the sprayer. extra points for having reproduced both the runs in the paint and the variable thickness from top to bottom!

This had to be one of the more skilled tasks in the factory with a really good eye - I sure wouldn't want to try this with the upholstery installed!!