New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
rg171352
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:19 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: G
Location: NY
Board Member Since: 2006

New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by rg171352 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:14 am

I've been trying to find a source for a new Model T tool kit screwdriver. Are these available anywhere?


Original Smith
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Original Smith » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:35 am

Used ones show up once in a while, and usually, they aren't too good. It would be nice if someone would make a new one, but they would have to be perfect.

User avatar

Charlie B in N.J.
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
First Name: CHARLIE
Last Name: BRANCA
Location: Brick N.J.
MTFCA Number: 28967
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:43 am

It's hit & miss but I have found 2 at N.J. flea markets. Since their unmarked they came at bargain basement prices as the sellers had no idea what they were.
Forget everything you thought you knew.


Les Schubert
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
First Name: Les
Last Name: Schubert
Location: Calgary

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Les Schubert » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:46 am

Can someone post a picture?


Topic author
rg171352
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:19 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: G
Location: NY
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by rg171352 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:52 am


User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Contact:

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by DanTreace » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:11 am

Factory print if anyone wants to replicate. Just don't add Ford script, it was never there anyway.
145960.jpg
145960.jpg (114.28 KiB) Viewed 1139 times
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
rg171352
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:19 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: G
Location: NY
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by rg171352 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:29 pm

Dan, That drawing is fantastic. That's what I was thinking of doing. I located a company who can make the handles with the proper fluting and another that may be able to do the assembly. Before I went further in my effort, I wanted to make sure that I'm not the only one having trouble finding one in nice shape.

User avatar

WayneJ
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:15 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Jorgensen
Location: Batavia, IL
MTFCA Number: 31697
MTFCI Number: 23399
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by WayneJ » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:02 pm

There is a screwdriver on eBay now, if you search on the part number you should be able to find the listing. It is not perfect, and at $50, not cheap. The photos on the listing are clear and sharp, so if nothing else you can get a good photo of the proper screwdriver.
Wayne Jorgensen, Batavia, IL
1915 Runabout


John kuehn
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by John kuehn » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:22 pm

The print Dan has posted shows the blade to be made of tool steel which indicates it’s a quality piece of steel. But the information for the wood handle just says a “wood” handle.
If the screw driver was to be reproduced I wonder if there is a source for the type of wood that was used.


Les Schubert
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
First Name: Les
Last Name: Schubert
Location: Calgary

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Les Schubert » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:30 pm

Thank you for the pictures


modelt46
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:35 pm
First Name: Darel
Last Name: Leipold
Location: Excelsior MN
MTFCA Number: 823
MTFCI Number: 953
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by modelt46 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:44 pm

The "1917" band adjusting wrench is not the correct wrench. The correct #1917 wrench had a larger opening on one end. Have several correct ones and several of the one illustrated.


Topic author
rg171352
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:19 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: G
Location: NY
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by rg171352 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:05 pm

John kuehn wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:22 pm
The print Dan has posted shows the blade to be made of tool steel which indicates it’s a quality piece of steel. But the information for the wood handle just says a “wood” handle.
If the screw driver was to be reproduced I wonder if there is a source for the type of wood that was used.
That is an interesting question. I also wonder what sort of wood they used. I feel like most seem to be painted, so perhaps it doesn't matter?
WayneJ wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:02 pm
There is a screwdriver on eBay now, if you search on the part number you should be able to find the listing. It is not perfect, and at $50, not cheap. The photos on the listing are clear and sharp, so if nothing else you can get a good photo of the proper screwdriver.
Thank you for the heads up. Wow, a $50 asking price for something so rough? I'm intrigued by the butt end of the screwdriver as to what the suppliers did. This one seems to be a peened over square where as the one on Royce's site has a round metal portion. The post by Bill in 2017 looks like there were some degrees of ambiguity between the butt end. Would points be lost for this detail?


John kuehn
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by John kuehn » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:34 pm

As far as what kind of wood is used the remains of the screwdriver I use to have I do remember the steel blade went all the way through the handle with the butt end exposed and smooth.
The print seems to show this. I have a few other old screwdrivers my father used on our farm made the same way. It may be they were made this way so that users could use them like a chisel. And yes I know that not a good way to use a screwdriver but some were after looking at the butt ends of them. There were times users would be tempted to do this.
I have a feeling the wood was a type that wouldn’t split and probably wasn’t pine. Just some thoughts!


Tim Moore
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:08 pm
First Name: TIMOTHY
Last Name: MOORE
Location: "Island City", MI

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Tim Moore » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:53 pm

If I was to make a guess as to the wood handle I would go with spoke material. It would seem logical that Ford would use what they had lots of scrap on hand.


Dropacent
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Dropacent » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:37 pm

I’d say Tim has a good guess, and mine would be whatever would take dipped black paint without grain showing. Birch, maple , hickory, elm. I’m not sure ford had iron mountain maple when these were first made. ........looking at my original, it appears to be birch.
In a rare moment of thinking of what to do today, I’ve kicked these around. Unless you work for free, I’d say you have to get $100-125 for one ready to go that is made to the print. You’d have $500 in the first one. Only doable if you have the economy of making a bunch. How’s that target market? Someone with a real early car, that would take a reproduction. Not very big, IMHO. It may take 5-10 years to sell 50 of them.
Next to the Buckeye Jack handle , this is the hardest tool to find. When grandpa threw the flivver away, the lights were hung in the barn, and he kept the tools. The screwdriver , of all tools, had many uses and so well made they lasted forever. I’ve found 2 in all my years, and both beat to holy hell. But, still usable as a screwdriver. They are hard to find because they are still in old people’s tool boxes. They don’t look like anything to an antique dealer, to take the trouble and try to sell.
As for making the handle, that would be the fun item. Cut a V shape in two pieces of wood, and glue together to make the square hole. You have to wonder how FoMoCo did it. I’m guessing a specialized broach, after a hole was drilled.
If you take it on, keep us posted, I’d buy a brand new looking one !

User avatar

Doug Keppler
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:28 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Keppler
Location: Fredon N.J.
MTFCA Number: 49716

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Doug Keppler » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:02 pm

Dan the Man
1924 Touring car
There's No Substitute for Proper Lubrication


Dropacent
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Dropacent » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:05 pm

The shaft is square all the way stem to stern. That shows on the print, too. The much later , ( model A, v-8, ford tractor) screwdriver had round steel all the way through.


Original Smith
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Original Smith » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:32 pm

I have probably one of the best ones in existence. It still has the original black paint on it, and doesn't appear to have been used much. I used this screwdriver in an article on Model T tools I wrote for the Vintage Ford many years ago.


Allan
Posts: 757
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Allan » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:52 pm

I have two available for sale, when the container in which they were shipped to the USA turns up! They have new handles made exactly to the factory print Dan posted, and have the square shafts as is correct. Mine were included in a shipment of stuff, and the receiver was going to post them on when I found a buyer for them.

Allan from down under.


Topic author
rg171352
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:19 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: G
Location: NY
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by rg171352 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:00 am

Allan, How much will they be? Are they making more of them? How many may be available?


Allan
Posts: 757
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Allan » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:41 am

Richard, these two will be $80 each, postage paid to a USA address. I have blades to assemble more, but I need to have more handles turned before I mill the slots in the grip. Subsequent ones will be dearer due to postal charges.
These screwdrivers are somewhat unique in that they have 8 grip slots in the handle. Most other screwdrivers have smaller diameter handles which means 6 grip slots.

Allan from down under.


Topic author
rg171352
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:19 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: G
Location: NY
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by rg171352 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:54 am

Hi Allan,

The milling is definitely the part of the venture that is especially time consuming and difficult to reproduce. What sort of blades are you using? How do they terminate at the butt end? What was your wood of choice?

Are you planning to make a lot of them?


Allan
Posts: 757
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Allan » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:09 am

Richard, I had a nice piece of teak left form another job which fitted the bill. It takes the black paint well, soaking it up so it looks much like a stain.
I don't plan on making heaps of them. Finding suitable old square blades and ferrules to use is difficult at the best of times, so I can only do them as blades come along. This means I am really limited in numbers. The last 6 I did took me 5 or so years to find the blades. Then I have to talk my nephew around to have him turn the blanks. I think Queensland hoop pine is a better match timberwise to the original timber used.

Allan from down under.


Original Smith
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by Original Smith » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:15 am

Do you press the shank into the handle, or do you use a broach to make it square before you press it in? Inquiring minds need to know this stuff!

User avatar

WayneJ
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:15 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Jorgensen
Location: Batavia, IL
MTFCA Number: 31697
MTFCI Number: 23399
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: New pre 1920 Screwdrivers

Post by WayneJ » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:34 am

I am certainly by no means an expert, but I had read the previous forum posts on screwdrivers when they came up, and here are my conclusions, and again I am no expert.

1.Ford didn't make their own screwdrivers, they were manufactured by outside suppliers.

2. Because of the volume of cars produced before 1920, there was likely more than one supplier involved. These suppliers were the manufactures that likely made screwdrivers for other customers in addition to Ford.

3. The screwdriver is one of the hardest tools to find for the tool kit. I believe this more due to the fact that the screwdrivers are unmarked, rather than the fact that the screwdrivers were discontinued after 1920. Other tools had running changes over time (spark plug wrench, adj. wrench and such). and it is relatively easy to find examples of each style. But not so the screwdriver.

4. Since there were millions of screwdrivers produced, there must be thousands still out there. Folks generally don't through away a screwdriver, even after it becomes too battered to use as a screwdriver. It gets relegated to the screwdriver that is used to open paint cans and such, to save the "good" screwdriver. Because the screwdriver isn't marked "Ford" folks that have one don't recognize its collector protentional, and so it just sits in their tool box or "junk" drawer.

5. The screwdrivers that came in new, 1920 and earlier Model T's, probably didn't all match the print exactly. I suspect, most of them didn't match the print, or we would see more "Ford Model T" screwdrivers out there. After 1914 production of Model T's really took off, as did production of other cars such as Chevrolet, Dodge, etc. These other cars came with tool kits including screwdrivers also. If you were a buyer for Ford, you would not want to be responsible for holding up production because of a shortage of screwdrivers. You would have bought a screwdriver "close" to the print that would have functioned the same. Probably some Model T's came with screwdrivers that had a round instead of a square shank. We will never know for certain, since the only documentation on the screwdrivers is the factory print. Plenty of Ford owners took photos of their new car, nobody took a photo of their new "Ford" screwdriver. You may have an authentic "Ford Model T" screwdriver and not know it, and have no way of proving it.

6. I am not an expert on judging, my understanding is that while more points are awarded to a screwdriver that matches the print, one would still get most of the points as long as you include a screwdriver of the approximate type. Not having a screwdriver that matches the print exactly would probably not be critical in the ranking of your car compared to others, as long as you include some type of period appropriate screwdriver in your tool kit. Again I am not a judging expert.

7. When my Dad passed, I went through his wooden handled screwdrivers to see if any of them matched the Ford print. None of them did. I took the best one I could find and repainted the handle, and this is the one that I carry in my Model T tool kit. Where ever I go in my T, one of my Dad's tools goes with me. What I lack in authenticity, I make up for in sentimentality. If I ever have my car judged, I don't believe my screwdriver will be a critical factor in the judging results.

8. Again I am no expert, these are just my conclusions based on what I have read on the forum and the various Model T publications. Here is my tool kit:
My T Tool Kit.JPG
Wayne Jorgensen, Batavia, IL
1915 Runabout

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic