MTFCA Forum

Rob

Chris, I suspect sometimes names are mismatched and mistaken. Initial newspaper reports wrote that Duffy was driving Dr. Murdock's Knox. Duffy, by the way, was Adam Englehart's brother in law, and was reported driving the Stevens six during the climb. I just found a better photo of the winning Corbi...

Rob

Thank you Bud. Now, for the end of this lengthy story. In 1912, Adam Englehart (as mentioned earlier, there are at least three spellings used by media of the day) is killed instantly. The shop acetylene welder is suspected. 86DAD841-870D-40B8-BC77-F3077C10BEA7.jpeg Adam's widow and 19 year old son t...

Rob

Two more comparisons between the winning Corbin and what may be the 2nd place Ford six. I think the photographer may have been in about the same spot for both cars, while the cars are at different spots when the photos were snapped. I've circled two men watching the hill climb. 356E9EDA-D75C-48A2-A6...

Rob

As it turned out, Fords carried the day, in the 161 - 230 cubic inch class, with Adam Englehart winning the cup with a Ford runabout. Corbin was the big winner, winning cups in both the 301 - 450 c.i. Class and the Free-For-All. However, our Ford six was right in the mix of things, placing 3rd in th...

Rob

Wayne, thank you, as always for your informative post and kind comments. It seems technology was moving rapidly with automobiles and as a result, many of the motorists I research only keep a car one to two years. On rare occasion I find an owner who will keep a car four or five years, but that seems...

Rob

Back for a little more of the story. First thing I need to mention, the new Ford agent, Adam Englehart, didn't advertise Model Ks, only Ford runabouts. Then, when Dr. Murdock bought a Ford Six, he went to New York to drive the car home. This tells me that Adam was a smaller agent, and conducted his ...

Rob

Regarding the question of how long will Dr. Murdock keep this one (Ford "K"), time will tell. Reference the famous Thomas Vandy Cup racer, what happens next may be more of a surprise than anything else in this story. Adam Englehart announces he will overhaul the racer, replacing the transmission wit...

Rob

Thank you Bud. I enjoy learning about the people who owned and drove our cars so long ago. This story will end with a degree of poignancy, but also continuity. Now, for the part that may not surprise anyone. Dr. Murdock once again trades his car after less than one year. He has now owned 7 cars over...

Rob

Thanks Wayne, yes, Pat told me the same (Olds). I know my Model K's pretty well, can't say the same for other marquees..... :shock: Dr. Murdock received his Thomas Cup Racer in October 1906. The question is, will this be a car he keeps longer than he has in the past? It appears he's making a long te...

Rob

Thanks guys. We had our weekly "Ford and Friends" Zoom meeting this afternoon, so I'm afraid I had to disengage from this story. Also, Pat, a MTFCA reader, kindly let me know the pic I scammed (yes, it's true) off the internet wasn't an Autocar X after all. Thank you Pat, and my apologies to anyone ...

Rob

Dave, Thanks for the post. As I'm researching (this is a work in progress) I'm finding two stories about Dr. Murdock's dental background. One modern genealogy site says he had no formal education in dentistry, while another (period article) indicated he was educated in England following a B.A. degre...

Rob

Perry, yes, a lot of money. Dr. Murdock is about the most prolific car buyer I've found. There were other who kept quite a few cars at one time, but he buys and sells often, averaging less than a year a car usually. And now is when it starts to get interesting. Dr. Murdock buys one of the most famou...

Rob

In January, 1906, Dr. Murdock joins other Meridan's at the New York Auto Show. It shouldn't be a surprise by now, but he's sold his six month Thomas: 5297320B-5268-413A-963C-180993C0430D.jpeg And purchases a new 50 hp Thomas Flyer touring car: 8335561B-3518-4F7D-BA2C-5DD829112B2B.jpeg Next - still a...

Rob

The Autocar doesn't last long. On the 18th of July, 1904 we learn Dr. Murdock has sold his Autocar and purchased a 1904 Thomas Flyer: C4C3ED88-98FC-4D7B-B112-70AB5149D5E6.jpeg F1EC38A6-5677-43B8-9722-720E4B96D563.jpeg 953D3BB2-919D-4470-9A66-DE82785994B9.jpeg The Autocar lasted almost four months. W...

Rob

Let's begin at the beginning. Meriden CT is about 20 miles south of Hartford CT. One of Meriden's first automobilistes was Dr. Frederick L. Murdock. Dr. Murdock was born in England in 1864 (one year younger than Henry Ford). His family was unable to provide for him and he was shipped to Canada to wo...

Rob

Meriden CT, 1903. Dr. Murdock, a local dentist, born in England and educated in the U.S. and England, was an early automobile enthusiast. This story will include a Thomas Flyer 6 cyl. Vanderbilt Cup Racer along with two other Thomas Flyers, a Knox, Autocar, and a lowly Ford. I'm still uncovering inf...

Rob

109 mph, but not really a T. Four cylinder 410 cu. in.. A wolf in sheeps clothing......

Rob

Thanks for the memory John Warren. The speedster reunion is a special event, and I hope it comes off this year. The organizers have been kind enough to let a Model K run an exhibition hill climb in the past. Hope to see many of you there this year. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1llqdqxc5n42l3l/Video%20J...

Rob

Good pics and information, thanks guys. If this car began as an R (with an N engine switched in), there should be holes where the step plate brackets attached, and they should be plugged with rivets. Ford kept building, and punching holes, in the frames of R and S models, "plugging" the now unnecess...

Rob

Thanks for the post. I agree Kim, wish they would let them go. I think they have an early T motor too (77?).

Rob

Bud, my pleasure. The Dodge’s seem like hard working, hard playing brothers and Detroit appeared to be the wild west of auto making in the early part of the twentieth century.

Rob

Found it. January 9th, 1906: C6A7785F-553F-4941-B184-C1D75BEADF10.jpeg The FMC BOD approved renting space from Dodge Bros. at “recently acquired by them at Brush st and Jefferson:” 1871215A-D367-4F87-AAEC-D41BC4EBD7A8.jpeg Maybe someone with knowledge of Detroit knows if this location may have been ...

Rob

This is a photo of the Dodge plant taken sometime in late 1906 or after (1907 or later Model K parked in front. On the right a K roadster or S roadster left rear fender can be seen. If so, that dates the photo after March 1907 (K Road) or spring 1908 (if S Roadster). I recall Ford directors minutes ...

Rob

My pleasure Wayne. Happy New Year. I never cease to be surprised by Henry Ford’s nerve, as well as desire to branch out in many areas in addition to building cars. At the same time he and his associates were rebuilding this wrecked racer, they had already begun his next big racer, with a six cylinde...

Rob

On January 12th, 1904, Henry Ford became the first American driver driving a racer made in the U.S. to set the world mile speed record. He also became the first man to drive a mile under 40 seconds. He did it after rebuilding his 1902 built racer (some dispute whether it was 999 or Arrow) that had b...

Rob

Our 1907 Ford Model K had a portion of the rumble seat that had previously never seen the light of day. It was a deep, almost dark, rich red. I suspect Model S Roadsters and 1909 T tourings were the same. It was an absolutely gorgeous and rich color:

Rob

Julie gave me two new art wall hangings for Christmas. Framed photos of Henry Ford driving his six cylinder racer in 1906, and of the Ford Special racer sent to France, placing 2nd in Europe’s most prestigious hill climb. Both were cover photos from the French magazine “The Great Outdoor Life:” I am...

Rob

Actually, a September 1907 parade:

A little “enhancement.”

Rob

Thank you for all the fine posts. Steve, thanks for the post. Yes, I’ll forward the thread. Tom has helped so many early car enthusiasts. I doubt Tom ever met anyone who wasn’t a friend. What a great guy. It was good to see him. I picked up a new gas tank Tom made for our Model K. It looks like NOS....

Rob

Frank, No, that’s the last racer Henry Ford built. It has a 410 Cu in motor, and beat the fastest car in the world in 1911, the Blitzen Benz. Currently, it’s off display at THF. Articles on Model T Times: Part 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o82q61ihwp7z6kc/MTT%201.PDF?dl=0 Part 2: https://www.dropbox....

Rob

Several of us have benefited from Tom’s radiator work in Kansas. Tom is an incredible talent, and as it turned out, saved many early Ford radiators. When we first met, Tom took a Model K and N radiator on that two shops in Omaha said were beyond repair. A good friend in KS told me to check with Tom ...

Rob

Unfortunately, the last anyone mentions this racer is late 1904. Frank Kulick told a newspaper both the new six cylinder and his 20 hp racer would be at the Ormond (Daytona) beach racers in early 1905. However, only the six cylinder arrives and the small racer isn’t heard of again. Of Fords early ra...

Rob

Dave, thanks. Not sure what you were trying to write, but remember this is a family friendly site....

Rob

Other cars Henry Ford owned, before and during the tenure of the Model T. First, (of course) Henry Ford’s personal Model K was described in this reminiscence of family friends and employee, Mr. and Mrs. Louis Scott. Mr. Scott described the Ford’s Model K being “maroon with blue spokes, and then he h...

Rob

Wayne, never mind the tie, look at Frank Kulick’s right pants leg, just over the open chain: 9E8BFF17-689A-4D23-BBE2-21E7A9E2393D.jpeg This article appeared in “Scientific American” in November 1904. Kulick driving the Ford skeleton racer and Barney Oldfield with the Peerless Green Dragon: C4E59D7A-...

Rob

Jason, have to run to take a kid to the doctor (when they are in their twenties, are they still a “kid?”). I’ll get on this. It’s a 20 hp rated racer somewhat “cobbled” together late in the 1903 racing year. It made headlines, and held light and middleweight records for 1 to 5 miles for years after ...

Rob

Wayne, incredible story about your past experience with printing. Thank you. I’ll look into a method to try to print with it. Thanks again! Herb, it is incredible that John recognized it, and contacted me. The seller had no idea what car it was, so there wasn’t much information. I thought pieces wer...

Rob

Susanne, Thank you for the post, In my research, I don’t believe HF ever disdained the six. In fact, initially he reported he would bring out a four (T) and light six (late 1907). Furthermore, there are reports of HF driving around Detroit, and overtaking larger cars with his prototype light six in ...

Rob

Thanks guys. Now to figure out how to create this one. Same plate.....

Rob

Difficult to make out, but a six cylinder “speedster” in John’s photo above, with a guy in a blue shirt. Hope to see many of you there in 2021. A word to the wise. Do not, under any circumstances, go to a bar in Lincoln with Jerry from Kansas. Don’t ask how I know.... CE92119C-DC08-4717-AA2E-745E1D4...

Rob

The end result after flipping and cleaning up:

Compared with an original:

Merry Christmas to me..........

And Happy Holidays to all,
Rob

Rob

It’s like new, with very little use. Did I mention, it cost me $14.00. Another old car friend sent an email a few months ago, asking if this printers block on EBay was a Model K: 02E3314F-D8B6-46B2-A15B-128C08683504.jpeg As it turns out, not only is it a Model K, it’s the same image used with many F...

Rob

Bob was incredibly gifted, and an all around great guy. He helped with a portion of my Model K restoration, and had a wit and intellect that was fascinating. We’ll miss him.

Rob

Great! Happy Holidays.

Rob

Rob

Great pics. Thank you for posting.

Rob

Happy Birthday Dean. You’re the best, enjoy!

Rob

Looks like 15 were built for testing (Ford 3 ton tank), with one making it to France for testing:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_3-Ton_M1918

Rob

Ford built and tested WW 1 era light tanks, consisting of two T motors. I saw one survivor at the Fort Knox KY museum years ago. I don’t recall if any made it to Europe during the war. Click on the link to see testing footage: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0su1d3ad8qskznr/1917%20Military%20Ford%20Tanks....

Rob

Jim, I believe this is the same Model K Carl Binner (RIP) TX, owned at one point. The smaller wheels with aftermarket demountable rims lead me to that conclusion. Mr. Binner bought the car in about 1955: E54179A0-67D3-4F3D-A0A8-4170B3B54E87.jpeg If these are the same Model K, the car was originally ...

Rob

I think the placard needs updating. For one thing, 23 K’s remain (which btw is a good survival percentage for 1906-08 cars), 6 being roadsters. Secondly, of those remaining, 5 are in running condition and another is driveable, but in a museum. Thirdly........ https://www.dropbox.com/s/bw0qgxw3dprl9j...

Rob

Surviving Ford film link:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorag ... 585a-d.mp4

Screenshot of tanks being tested:

Also on the film clip:

Rob

Bob, Yes, rides are always available. Give me a little advance notice and I may have it closer to Omaha. Julie’s parents live on a lake between Omaha and Lincoln, just off I-80. We often take it there during the summer. Both hips are doing great. Passed ten years this summer with the new knees. Hope...

Rob

Beautiful weather yesterday, so we took the K out to a few local watering holes.

Dropbox link (1:22 mins):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2i51c7e5fvsk ... K.mp4?dl=0

Rob

We took our old “K” out today.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/skn3xix1sm9cl ... 1.MOV?dl=0

Rob

Thanks guys. I’m learning that it’s almost impossible to cover everything in a slideshow presentation that one is able with print. A good portion of the video covers Ford’s win and world record setting performance in the 24 hour race held at Detroit on June 21-22, 1907. Unfortunately, I don’t believ...

Rob

According to Rob. 8-) This is the second in what has become a three part slideshow of Henry Ford and the development of the six cylinder racer and Model K. The slideshow is about 30 minutes with 5 minutes of discussion after. Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q7etmbwc5i96w01/Henry%20Ford%20and%20the%2...

Rob

Jim, My limited review of history reveals one thing, individuals sometimes aggrandize their contributions, or involvement. I don’t know if Oliver Barthel was so integrally involved in Henry Fords amazing early successes with both racers and automobiles. I do believe Henry Ford had an incredible abil...

Rob

Thanks guys. I hope to put on part two this week.

Rob

Oliver Barthel was brought in to address issues with the six cylinder racer motor that is the prototype for the Model K. The Model B evolved from a prototype air cooled four cylinder model Ford originally intended to bring out. There was a lot going g on in the design room in 1904, air cooled four c...

Rob

I presented this to our early Ford and Friends group. If you watch I hope you enjoy:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgklxefmnvp0d ... 1.mp4?dl=0

Rob

Thanks guys. Marty, I trimmed them straight across a day or two ago. They are old wicks but were saturated and seem to do a good job.

Rob

Interesting key on ebay, with #92 on it. Has anyone seen anything similar before?

Rob

Thanks guys. Dave, that guy from Kansas ruined that brewery..... :lol: Speaking of an over 21 version. We went out yesterday afternoon and found the back deck of a 1907 Ford serves very well: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1c5ravrqixlkwy8/End%20of%20the%20LIne%20.mp4?dl=0 8557DC00-8DF8-401F-B697-FE086D5A...

Rob

First evening we’ve had the lights lit. The winery was a good place to socially distance and enjoy a beautiful late summer evening. The last song we stayed for was “Ghost Riders in the Sky.” Thought that was a fitting theme for a gaslight drive. Dropbox link, just over 4 minutes: https://www.dropbox...

Rob

Sad to hear. Charlie had incredible knowledge about T’s and several makes of cars. I always paid attention to what he wrote when identifying an unknown part or car. Rest In Peace.

Rob

Thanks guys. It’s great to see old friends again.

Rob

We’ve lost one car, but added several. Today (Friday) I believe we’re at 12 cars. Maybe 14 for tomorrow’s big run to Buffalo and back. We’ll be in New London at the American Legion later today if the rain lets up. Our Model T representation is up to four, 1914, 15 and 16, with a brass speedster join...

Rob

Day three of the “half assed tour.” Tomorrow, on to Spicer and New London:”

Rob

Michael, could we look Into it next year?

Rob

A group of us decided to socially distance, and conduct as near a normal a tour as possible. We’re in Paynesville MN for a few days, replicating our Early Ford and Friends tours of the past. Tuesday it’s on to Spicer and a taste of what the New London to New Brighton offered in the past, with a few ...

Rob

Joseph,
That is an interesting read! I wonder if the family has any photos and/or documents from that period (1903-1910).

Bud,
Just dropped off a few things at the shop where the racer is. It’s almost together and ready for a test drive. Hopefully within a week or two. Hope all is well there.

Rob

Natalie Weaver did a wonderful job editing and helping me put the second part of the story together. Part 1 covered the beginning of Ford’s racing program in 1910, when HF told lead engineer Joe Galamb he wanted a racer that would beat the fastest racer in the world at that time, the Blitzen Benz. P...

Rob

Wayne, Thank you, as always. Hope your summer is going well. I looked at a few saved files on Malcomson, and his fortunes take a tragic, almost tortured turn toward the end of his life. He and HF career and life paths definitely move in different directions following his sale of Ford stock in the su...

Rob

Models B and K are “near and dear” to my heart as an early Ford enthusiast. Personally (as many on this forum may recall), I’m not a believer in many “histories” regarding the two models, and Henry Ford’s relationship with them. I appreciate Jim’s interest in the Model B (as well as Kim’s work with ...

Rob

Harold, thanks. Editor Natalie chose those pics, published courtesy of The Henry Ford. I’ve seen the racer up close, and it is a piece of art! Light, efficiently built, and big block Chebby sized motor. It beat the fastest racer in the world head to head. Wish it were on display at THF.

Rob

Wayne,
It’s almost back together. Hopefully in the next week or two. It looks good, and hopefully will be better than ever. Thank you for asking. We had our second article in the other club magazine on the Ford specials, and I’ll post it at the end of the month. Hope all is well there,
Rob

Rob

Wayne, thank you for posting, and I don’t wish to contradict....... However, while researching other early Ford accessories (even after market accessories were advertised for the Ford Model B were marketed in 1906 and 07), it seems this style shocks were available for Fords, as well as other small c...

Rob

Looks great Russ. Thank you for sharing, and please keep us posted as it comes together.

Rob

Happy belated birthday Darel.

Rob

Pics please.

Rob

Kim, Thank you for sharing this journey with us. A few facts and figures to add. 500 Model B were produced, selling for $2,000. A few things to consider about the Model B. In 1904 and 05 when the B was designed and primarily sold, if a carmaker produced and sold over 100 cars per year, they were usu...

Rob

Kim sent this video of his successful test drive of this early production (#51) Model B. Click on the link below to view his drive:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ffohhcozh9v64 ... B.MOV?dl=0

Rob

Trent Boggess, college professor and early Ford historian, presented a discussion about his early Ford database. Trent located, and painstakingly tabulated the remaining Ford Motor Company production/shipping ledgers for early Ford cars, 1903 - 1909. Click on the link below to hear his explanation o...

Rob

Gil, nice try.......... 8-) Susanne, the dual spark was with the motor/project. It’s similar to the one on the 410 cubic inch Ford Special racer at THF. I don’t know if it was with the motor originally, or found and added to the project at some point in time. Bud, the motor was balanced by Fawcett r...

Rob

Stopped in today to check on a few things. Pics include the 09 style waterpump, magneto drive with dual spark Bosch mag and deflector shield over auxiliary exhaust ports:

Rob

Thanks guys. Yes, Dave, amazing shop. I think I overheated the motor last summer, and there was scoring on the pistons and cylinder walls. Fortunately we were able to hone the cylinders, but needed new pistons. When Tony got into the motor, the crankshaft also didn’t turn well (videos below) and was...

Rob

Rob

Our 300 cu in motor is almost finished. Tony Schafers, lead instructor at our local college took on the motor after some damage last summer. This is how it looks now. Awaiting the headgasket, then back together and into the car. We’ve had tremendous support with this project, from Fawcett Restoratio...

Rob

Rob

Rob

Natalie Weaver, editor and photographer for the Model T Times, helped me put the following article together, and it ran in last months T Times issue. This article is part one of two covering Henry Ford’s last, and arguably best pre world one racing efforts. In a nutshell, Henry Ford approached his l...

Rob

Bob,
I think he put that in to see if you were paying attention. You get a gold star.

Trent had this slideshow prepared, and it is obviously a typo. I suspect he’ll read this and see it.

Rob

Last Thursday Trent Boggess presented his research into the first Model T, or T prototype, including the two lever, three pedal car. That’s right, two lever, three pedal. Trent has graciously allowed us to post his presentation. While the entire recording lasts two hours, the first hour consists pri...

Rob

George, Darel and Bud, Trent Boggess put together a presentation on the first Model T, including prototypes. He delivered to a small group of us over Zoom a few days ago, and has given permission to post it, so this is a timely thread. I’ll start a new thread with his presentation. Better get some p...

Rob

One last thing: 18844AA2-43B5-4812-8A28-686C547D2918.jpeg Landaulet, Ford, Model NRS style waterpump, with Model T style shoulders and tank on the radiator. Right hand drive, and it doesn’t look like it has the large T style transmission. I think it also has NRS style high low lever on the right of ...

Rob

Things I know and think I know. This October 1907 Motor World article describes the early Model T prototype in some detail. One interesting sentence in the article (bottom of second paragraph, first page) reads “an advance view of them was afforded a Motor World man by Mr. Ford himself.” In other wo...

Rob

You go! Literally and figuratively. Enjoy.

Rob

Greg,
I’m referring to Ford’s first magneto and dual ignition system, standard to the Ford six (Model K).

Rob

Lots of good comments and information in this thread. Thank you all for posting. A few points (take them for what they are worth..... 8-) ) Ed Huff collaborated with Henry Ford to design one of the most unique ignition/magneto systems ever invented. In fact, the likes of it wouldn’t be seen again on...

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