MTFCA Forum

Rob

Bill, I’ve not found drawings yet, and agree that the Aerocar was probably under powered or at least underwhelming mechanically. Currently, I’m aware of a 1907 Aerocar touring car (Model D?) in Tasmania. It was in Nebraska years ago and I attended the auction, not knowing much of the marquee at that...

Rob

Thank you Paul, here’s the direct link to the EFR site:

https://earlyfordregistry.org/

Rob

Randy,
NRS have two fully elliptical springs on the rear. Unlike the single T rear spring, they have one gradual curve. Can you post a photo of your spring?
Thank you for posting,
Rob

Rob

It’s not Peoria, but an interesting array of automobiles in Decatur Illinois, July, 1905. 66 cars were reported in this newspaper article. Ford Motor Co., just completing their 2nd year of operation, is the fourth largest in number of cars in Decatur.

Rob

George,
I wouldn’t say early Ford expert. However, I doubt anyone has more research at their fingertips regarding Model K, and Model B to a lesser extent.
Cheers,
Rob

Rob

120 years ago today Charles Miller and Bro. of Washington D.C. placed the following advertisement, “A Car of Model B ….. Just Received.” IMG_6268.jpeg A quick check of the Miller Accounts Receivable ledger (compliments of The Henry Ford Museum, all rights apply) reveal several items. IMG_6269.jpeg C...

Rob

George,
My pleasure. I’m glad it worked out. If you are inclined, get back to us on this forum with how it turned out. As I understand it, this is the same “K” your wife saw before.
Cheers,
Rob

Rob

This is the earliest announcement-article I’ve seen of the impending Model N. While many things are incorrect (wheelbase, opposed cylinders, $400 price, etc.), many are spot on (cylinders cast in pairs, horsepower per pair-8, etc.).

Rob

Thanks Keith, Henry Ford attended Port Hurons first ever auto races on July 4th, 1905. He drove a stripped down Model B Ford touring car to the fastest mile time of the meet, although a four cylinder Cadillac beat the 4 cyl Ford on a head to head contest. The Ford mile time of 1 minute 26 seconds eq...

Rob

120 years ago today: July 3rd, 1905, the city of Port Huron Michigan, just north of Detroit, announced Fourth of July boat and automobile races in local newspapers. Charles Grant, Ford Motor Co. Detroit Branch Manager was listed as the driver of a Ford four cylinder racer. As events unfolded, Henry ...

Rob

Continuing with key events in Ford Motor Co. history from 1905: This is the first public comment/article I've seen regarding the upcoming Model N. The new model is reported to be priced at $400 (came in at $500). While the "two horizontal double opposed cylinders rated at 8 horsepower," was off, the...

Rob

Thank you Carl. Wish it was still there. Many key racing events involving Henry Ford and Frank Kulick occurred there. The 24 hour win in 07, Frank Kulick’s record attempt and near fatality in Oct 07, and Ford and Kulick’s victory over the Blitzen Benz in September 1911 are major examples.

Rob

118 years ago tonight, June 22, 1907, Ford race car drivers Frank Kulick and L. B. Lorimer completed a grueling 24 hour race, begun the night before at 10 pm. They drove a Ford Six (Model K, like the one seen on my FB page) to a world record victory. By 1907, the 24 hour race, held at various one mi...

Rob

118 years ago tonight, at 10 pm, Frank Kulick set off in a Ford Six (Model K) on a 24 hour race. He and Ford were not the headliners or favorites. In 24 hours they would turn the motor racing world upside down.

Rob

Keith, If you see my next post, as of June and July 1905, one would think the shareholders would have thought “whatever you’re doing, keep it going,” regarding the leadership choices at FMC. However, Malcomson was already preparing to start a competing company, as he sat in a leadership position wit...

Rob

Ford Motor Co. was an immediate success financially. Within months of their first sale, the company issued stock dividends to investors. In many cases, the dividend actually paid a portion of some investors commitment (agree to stock purchase), as several had not paid actual cash, or their full comm...

Rob

Keith, Good points. It’s difficult to speculate. Up to this time (mid 1905) there didn’t appear to be any daylight between the Ford-Malcomson partnership. Things were going well, no, spectacularly. Tomorrow I’m starting a “120 years ago today” thread that will demonstrate how successful Ford Motor C...

Rob

Attached are excerpts from the Ford Motor Co. (FMC) Board of Directors (BOD) minutes between April 2, 1904 and May 16, 1905. We see in April 1904, while less than one year since incorporation (June 1903), FMC is taking bids for wheels on their next model (Model B was addressed in earlier meetings). ...

Rob

Ford Motor Co., and Henry Ford experienced many strategic events during the first years of the company’s existence. 1903 saw company formation. 1904 saw continued growth, still selling the venerable Model A. 1905, arguably saw unparalleled growth, with the advent of three models, the first four cyli...

Rob

Thanks guys. I decided to "git er done" and made a quick drive (760 miles) from home to the Reunion Friday. Left home at 8:00 a.m., arrived at the Best Western in Richmond about 8:00 Friday night, and back home by 1:00 pm Saturday. I hope to post a story on the "package" later. Thanks again for the ...

Rob

I have an important package I need moved west toward Lincoln Nebraska from Richmond IN. Anyone going west after the Reunion would be a help. This package is fragile and would require a secure space inside a car or pickup. About 20” x 20” x 20”. I can meet in St. Louis, Kansas City, Des Moines, Chica...

Rob

Welcome back to early cars in general and early Fords in particular….
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uoy290mq ... ngmit&dl=0

Rob

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15TqPs ... tid=wwXIfr

Screen shots from the FB link:

Rob

For years I’ve been curious, why did Henry Ford and his designers develop the Model K with individual jugs, when the Model N motor was cast in pairs? It seems that pairs were the natural wave of the future, leading toward the future Model T mono-block. Then I read this May 1906 “Horseless Age” artic...

Rob

I’m looking for the weight of both the 16 inch (primarily 10 hp A) and 20 inch (8 hp) flywheel. If anyone has a n A motor apart I would appreciate the weight and measurement of the flywheel. If the crank is still attached, the weight of both is good too. The Model C flywheel should be the same as th...

Rob

Many Model T owners might be surprised to learn that Ford Motor Co. had already dove headfirst into vanadium steel production by the summer of 1907. For anyone seeking in depth study of vanadium at that time, a few links: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ba3atfth6v8f8t95tipbb/Lake-and-Fay-on-Vanadium....

Rob

Carl,
What did he do at Ford? That’s quite interesting. Any stories or photos handed down from that time? What was his name?
Thank you for posting!

Rob

Carl, Yes, it appears the Model A was ready to go, implying FMC production is caught up with, or ahead of demand. This becomes more evident as we move into the multiple models. For example, initially, Model N demand far outpaced production, and the ledgers confirm this with initially months between ...

Rob

Next, the local newspaper confirms the Ford Model A arrived by September 15, 1904. The railroad moved the Ford Model A from Detroit to Paducah Kentucky in two weeks. IMG_7509.jpeg Lastly, we have confirmation of the intire transaction on the last (#3) line of the FMC ledger. A sight draft (bill of l...

Rob

Next, moving to the next entry on the FMC ledger, we see Model A #1669 was shipped on the same day, August 30th, the deposit was received at Detroit. Now we see a debit (the deposit was a Ford “credit”) for $723.50. This indicates the car is on the way (railway) to Paducah. We are learning that FMC ...

Rob

Next, reviewing the Foreman Bros. (Paducah Ford Agent) account receivable ledger (maintained by FMC, copyright The Henry Ford, all rights apply), look at “#1.” Ford’s account ledger shows the company received $100 deposit for a car (Model A) on August 30, 1904. This is Tuesday, only three days after...

Rob

I’m continually amazed by the speed Ford Motor Co. established a dealer network, parts/components supply and delivery network. This thread helps demonstrate how quickly Ford was able to supply cars, and deliver them to a new owner. The thread also demonstrates how period news sources dovetail with e...

Rob

As of this 1911 article, the Hanks own an Oldsmobile. In most cases I'v found, former Model K owners move on to other large expensive cars, as one might expect, although in a few cases they buy a Model T.

Rob

Had the B, F, N and K out for the local Model T club visit last weekend. Thank you Jeff Fries for helping getting them out and somewhat shined up.

Rob

We know Paul Hanks owned his Ford “K” in 1906, and into 1907, when his letter was published in March 1907. Technology and model changes meant the wealthy who owned early automobiles changed frequently, usually every year or two. I haven’t found more information on Hanks automobiling in 1907, but thi...

Rob

Back to “the story:” First, to confirm the letters time frame of when Hanks purchased hid Ford six. In the article below Mr. Hanks drove his car home from the Ford Buffalo NY branch, dated May 17, 1906. In the letter Hanks reported buying the Ford on May 18th. Close enough. IMG_7003.jpeg In May and ...

Rob

Continuing on….. I became aware of Paul Hanks after reading the following Ford Model K article and advertisement. Forst the article (infomercial): IMG_7012.jpeg And paid Ford Motor Co. advertising. In both cases, Paul Hanks extolled the virtues of his 1906 Model K via a letter in 1907. IMG_6992.jpeg...

Rob

Paul B. Hanks was a successful young entrepreneur at the turn of the last century. He owned an insurance agency, as well as oil and coal interests. Born in 1873, he was ten years younger than Henry Ford. His photo was included in this 1906 article, regarding oil interests in Indian Territory (soon t...

Rob

Wayne, not the first time for a K roadster to have one. In fact, when the car was stripped to paint, we saw holes and lines where it had a windshield at one time. A few other examples.
Cheers, and thank you for posting,
Rob

Rob

Been driving the 07 K daily, getting ready for the ABC tour in Pennsylvania in a week and a half.

Just back from town this morning.

Rob

Paul,
All hearsay……..

I resemble that remark,
Rob

Rob

Two Paducah Kentucky businessmen owned Ford Model K touring cars. One Sunday, they were busted…

Rob

Kim,
Yes. I have some ideas. Also, maybe another initially good location. Call, or I’ll try you. I’m driving all day tomorrow (to Salt Lake) and all day Friday returning. Maybe we can talk one of those two days?

Rob

Ford’s Model K, in addition to being the number one six cylinder car in production numbers in the world for both 1906 and 1907, had other unique features. One was a magneto invented by Ed Huff (who later invented the Model T low tension magneto). Huff studied Nikola Tesla’s patented theory and inven...

Rob

My 1905 (model year) B was produced at the end of 1904, and just recently approved for the London to Brighton run. I plan to make the run this fall. It’s one of only 2 Model B surviving that are eligible, and the first Ford Model B approved. However, it’s not the first Model B to prowl the streets o...

Rob

About 25% of early Ford sales information survived in the Accounts Receivable ledger books at The Henry Ford, Benson Library. Trent Boggess tirelessly entered the data by hand (thousands of records) into a database included with Carl Pate’s (RIP) Early Ford book. However, reviewing the actual ledger...

Rob

Ford Motor Co. began selling cars in July 1903. The company experienced immediate success, and sold almost 200 cars by the start of their first full fiscal year, beginning October 1, 1903. The Electric Vehicle Co. wasted little time initiating a law suit. This author indicates the suit is expected t...

Rob

This may be a photo of the landaulet prototype: IMG_9353.jpeg This undated photo below was taken at the New York Ford branch store. Two Model K are parked on the street. photo feb 28 2023, 8 37 15 pm.jpeg Inside, two cars are on the showroom floor. On the right is a K Roadster, with another rumble s...

Rob

Wayne, we may have a photo of one or two of them. First, the October 1907 sales audit shows three T sales for the month. IMG_6223.jpeg Above: This is a portion of the Ford Motor Company October 1907 sales audit. It includes two “T” and one “Laundaulet” (sic). I believe the lone (1) “Rumble Seat” sal...

Rob

Ford Motor Company began describing their projected 1908 lineup in late 1907. Sales ledgers indicate at least 3 Model T were sold in late 1907 and early 1908. This advertisement appeared in the New York Sun newspaper in November 1907.

Rob

Agents advertisement:

Rob

Illusionist and escape artist Harry Houdini purchased a Ford Model K touring car in 1907 for the purpose of transporting it to Europe for use while performing.

Rob

Nebraskaland Model T Club had a “shake out the cobwebs” afternoon tour and shop visit this last Saturday in Lincoln. They let me bring my red T too…. We started at Lincoln’s iconic Lee’s Chicken restaurant.

Rob

Jerry,
Wish the jugs had not been “ lost.” The piston appears to be about a 1/4 smaller than the Horseless Age specs and I don’t know how to reconcile the mechanical valves (2) v. this motor’s atmospheric valves. Maybe a prototype of the prototype? 🫣
Cheers,
Rob

Rob

The Model K (good catch, Wayne) was at the Sheridan Hill Climb. A Model T won its event. The K is a roadster, with an interesting wimpshield similar to those seen on the T Commercial Roadster.

Rob

More air cooled B prototype info. The B had budget expenses as early as October 1903. Ford was already planning a 4 cylinder car when the Model A had only been on the market a few months. This Detroit Free Press February 1904 article describes the air cooled 4 cylinder Ford: IMG_6066.jpeg A more in ...

Rob

I don’t know if this is an air cooled ot water cooled engine. One thing it has, that wasn’t seen until Model NR and S, was a three point style motor mount system. It has front mounts to the front, and like a T, would have allowed more flex than the traditional four legs bolted to the side rails like...

Rob

Wayne,
As always, thank you, and I appreciate your insights. History is an I testing, fluid and often changing (facts is facts, except what they aren’t 🫣). Working on a few other interesting “early Henry Ford” tidbits. Hope you have a good weekend.
Cheers,
Rob

Rob

What if this wagon had landed slightly differently during a tornado near Dearborn?

Rob

Hmmmmm, early radiator and script. Later tapered exhaust manifold. Does it have the covered cam bushing or McCord oiler exposed camshaft to the front? Nipple for exhaust oiler on the manifold? Are the rear axle support rods bent or straight where they mount to the axle tubes?
Thank you,
Rob

Rob

#509 isn’t in Trent’s database, but my guess it’s an early to mid September 1906 car:

Rob

Alan, Do you own #509? If so, I have some questions. Does it have the pre-boss crankcase number stamped to the rear of the 402 casting number, or a machined boss/pad forward of “402?” Does it have the early straight exhaust manifold? Early bent support rod differential? I’ll check Trent’s database a...

Rob

The narrative by a Detroit Free Press writer in 1905 about Henry Ford, Cadillac and Henry Leland and their interactions is a bit different from historians writings decades later. Black, Bowen, White and Murphy, Detroit financiers, had capitalized a company years before Detroit Automobile Co., and at...

Rob

Jerry,
I’m using Trent’s database, included with Carl’s book. Unfortunately, no #6000. Looks like the closest N 60xx was sold/shipped 7/17/1907. Another close number was shipped 7/29/1907.

Rob

Rich, you are in luck. Your N #365 shows up in the database, and it was sold to Northwestern, a large Ford agent in Minneapolis, that sold throughout the upper Midwest. Below is the ledger database page (thank you Trent B.), and the actual ledger page from Northwestern. It was shipped to Minneapolis...

Rob

Rich, Judging by Trent Boggess’ ledger database, Model N, like most Ford models, for the most part followed sequentially in order of sales. In other words, some numbers might appear later, due to a number of possible reasons, like repair, demonstrator, etc etc., but almost no numbers appear “backwar...

Rob

Tom, Thank you for posting! Wayne, I think this speedster holds one of the Ford Special racer motors. A side view (two versions of a similar speedster as i recall), there is no coilbox, a good clue that it may be a “special” motor, which used a Bosch 2 spark racing magneto instead of the standard lo...

Rob

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1A8AQy ... tid=wwXIfr

Rob

Next question, does #308 have the early straight exhaust manifold, or is it tapered like the later (bulk of) NRS?

Rob

This is the highest “pre-boss” N number I have seen! This makes me wonder if possibly the first 500 N engines (aluminum crankcases) were pre-boss? This is important in dating early motors. Any info is appreciated if anyone knows of later pre- motors, or later than this one?

Rob

Inner seat numbers.

N #3:

: IMG_5531.jpeg (76.32 KiB) Viewed 9870 times

: IMG_5530.jpeg (60.96 KiB) Viewed 9870 times

K #6XX:

Rob

N # 25

Rob

N#3 stamped number:

Rob

I’ve seen a number in the 120’s still stamped without the boss (maybe #128?). Numbers I know include #25 (first N sold in Canada, being restored on Vancouver Island), #15 (recently purchased by an EFR member) and I thought a number in the 220’s.

Rob

Jumping in……. Our N #3 also has a number painted on the inner seat back. It’s on the passenger seat back, number 89 (going from memory, I’ll try to find the photo). It’s painted with a brush, in the original maroon color over a black “primer.” Early N did not have a boss or pad to stamp the number o...

Rob

Thanks David,
There was one “laundaulet reported sold in October 1907. I’ll start another thread on the prototype T and Laundaulet listed as sold in 1907 and 08.

Below is a copy of the October 1907 accounts receivable ledger:

: IMG_5216.jpeg (48.11 KiB) Viewed 3066 times

Rob

July 1908 Ford T taxicab article:

Rob

Context to this letter, as referenced in Charles Hyde book. Model B was listed instead of “A,” although Model B have no parts listed in this letter. I believe Model B components were all sourced from vendors other than DB.

Rob

James Couzens letter to John Dodge requesting Model A, C & F parts FMC was in need of, dated April 21, 1906. Ford was just sending out the first production Model K, (April 15, 1906) and still several months (July) from the first Model N production. IMG_5159.jpeg Courtesy The Henry Ford, all rights a...

Rob

Herb, You might check with the EFR officers. I haven't spoken with them in awhile. As Administrator, I was locked out of the old site by spam or whatever corrupted it (Maxwells.... :D ). Chris B. was kind enough to give us this page on the MTFCA site, and since we were used to the platform I thought...

Rob

Good article on the record run:

IMG_5107.jpeg

Rob

Lake St. Clair, MI January 1904 - Henry Fords revamped racer Arrow (often referred to as its twin, 999) at one mile world record run. This is the first U.S. built world mile record holder racer. Left to right, John Dodge, A. Y. Malcomson, John Anderson, Henry Ford, James Couzens and Horace Dodge. IM...

Rob

More on this Model A. It was purchased new in September 1903. It’s an early production 8 hp car. A Binghamton NY article confirms the owner, cars and passengers were en route from Chicago to NY.

About 900 miles today:

Rob

Robert, Thank you for posting. Initially, when I saw the letter you posted about Vice President Fairbanks visit, I thought there might be a photo of him in a Model K (below): IMG_5073.jpeg However, that instance occurs two years later in 1907. Maybe this article identifies when the VP was in Plain C...

Rob

It’s interesting to attempt to understand the relationships and dynamics of the men who created Ford Motor Co. Other than Henry Ford himself and maybe CFO James Couzens, none on the board were more critical to the initial success of the company than the Dodge brothers and Alexander Malcomson. Malcom...

Rob

This Wanamaker advertisement included a photo of the four travelers:

Rob

Cleveland Ohio Oct 30 - 1902 Dear Mr. Ford, I was very sorry I did not leave the letters for the News & Journal as agreed but wish to assure you it was not intentional on my part. Mr. Couzens tells me Mr. Wills is getting around and I was glad to hear it, hope you will get everything running in good...

Rob

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/12Fs8H ... tid=wwXIfr

Enhanced:

Rob

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1BWgov ... tid=wwXIfr

Rob

Here’s one for every early Ford enthusiast to consider. What if …….. ? Following his election to the Presidency in November 1908, President Elect Taft began preparing to take office. At the time, the Office of President did not have a motor pool, or own automobiles for Presidential use. In his book ...

Rob

Theodore Mallon was a Ford six cylinder tester. His recorded experiences included attending the 1907 twenty four hour race held at the Michigan State Fairgrounds in which the Model K set a world record, testing Model K, and witnessing the last sale of Model K in 1909. Below he describes Henry Ford a...

Rob

The reverse side view of Piquette from a 1905 sales catalog. The track is seen with testing cars on the far right:

Rob

Colorized photo of the Ford Piquette plant, probably in 1905. The grounds are still quite undeveloped with the 1/4 mile test track still in use. IMG_5118.jpeg On the right three men are testing a Model B (front engine crank is visible), with several cars near the center of the plant, apparently with...

Rob

In 1906 this article appeared in newspapers across the nation about Henry Ford “dodging” storms with his six cylinder Ford Model K. The photos below the story are of Henry Ford speaking with a farmer at Ford’s farm (he built the house in the background years earlier as a young farmer for his new bri...

Rob

I thought this article one of the best I’ve read laying out who the original FMC investors were, how much cash they put up (compared with promissory notes), and how much they received when they sold their shares. IMG_4693.jpeg Transcript: (Times Tribune District Bureau) Detroit, Jan. 24, 1927 - The ...

Rob

In this article Henry Ford reports in August 1906 (the Model N has finally reached the market at this point, Henry Ford has purchased A.Y. Malcomson's 1/4 shares, John Gray has passed, and Ford was about to become President of the Board of Directors. In the article Ford reports it used to take three...

Rob

Chris,
Thank you!

Rob

Looks like a nice example of an R. Has the mechanical oiler, top and lights are nice additional items. Looks good to me. Thank you for posting!

Rob

Herb, I agree. Thanks for the heads up. I’ve seen the Model K Roadster photo before, and I think it was a 1908 or 09 race in Kansas City, but I’ll have to check. My guess is the Model N is a 1907 or 08, judging by the sidelamps and radiator. I believe the car in the other end of the race start is an...

Rob

I did get two carbs back that Stan was getting to. I’m sorry that some may have not. Stan was a one of a kind character and true talent. I miss him.

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