EV's

[Loftfield]

So it seems the big EV revolution is dying in the trenches, or on the vine. Suggest watching MGUY on Youtuibe, I think he is also on X and another such media. Quick stories explaining why the EV market is collapsing. My take on the situation is that everybody thought Elon Musk was going to be the next Henry Ford, ushering in an entirely new world of transportation. My response is that Mr. Ford was a first-class automotive engineer and not merely a successful capitalist businessman.

[TXGOAT2]

You could buy a very good EV 120 years ago. EVs of that era had a number of advantages over the steam and gasoline autos, but EVs all shared one shortcoming: The electro-chemical batteries were large, very heavy, troublesome, toxic, and short-lived, and not capable of delivering the energy that a tank of gasoline could. In addition to that, charging equipment was not widely available, and many people's homes and businesses lacked accommodations for charging equipment.
Today, Both EVs and IC vehicles have been vastly improved , at least functionally, but EVs are still handicapped versus IC vehicles due to BATTERY ISSUES, and, for a great many people, charging issues.
As for "new tech" vs "old tech", the electro-chemical cell may date back a thousand years or more, and the rotary magneto-electric motor was developed about 1835, well before the internal combustion engine.

[Oldav8tor]

"Get a horse!" There was a time when internal combustion vehicles had a questionable future also. Technology improved and the result is today's cars. I have no doubt that electric vehicles are in our future....the battery and availability of charging stations still has a way to go but if history is a guide it will happen.

Speaking of support infrastructure. I remember old timers talking about getting fuel before gas stations were common. They used to buy 5 gallon cans of gas from a local hardware. They could refill the cans from a hand pump in a barrel of gas in the back of the store. The barrels came in by train. In 1920, there were only 15000 gas stations in the whole USA. mostly in populated areas or along busy roads.

[TXGOAT2]

The battery is the main EV roadblock.... as has been the case for over century. Gasoline, or "cleaning fluid", was not readily available in the very early days, but it rapidly became available as cars began to flood the roads and trails. A business could get into gasoline sales with very little investment. Gasoline had many advantages over electric batteries as an energy storage medium, and it still does today. Gasoline is much more portable and store-able than electricity, and it is very energy-dense, and an empty gasoline tank can be refilled very quickly with very little in the way of special equipment. Of course, then as now, both gasoline and electricity, as well as high capacity electric batteries, need to be handled with care.

[Dan Haynes]

Despite opinions on this forum, electric cars are here to stay.

Not everyone drives a minimum 450 miles non-stop every time they get in their car, yet there are those who will rage against a car unless it will do so... even if >90% of their actual driving is trips of less than 50 miles. Most of those drivers, if not practically all of them, have a second (or third) car or truck available in the household powered by gas or diesel.

Having an electric car for the past 12 years has been pretty wonderful and it immediately became the primary car - meaning the "go-to" car for all local trips. I've heard all the snide remarks from the peanut gallery from the high seats of their jacked up trucks, how it is useless, blah, blah. If you are prompted to add your hoots to theirs, save your breath. The electric costs somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 what a gas car costs to run. No, I cannot pull the 26' enclosed car trailer with it, but I don't need the ability to pull the car trailer everywhere I go, either. If I need the trailer or if I need to drive 600 miles, I take the F250 (which isn't comparatively practical for daily use unless you NEED the hauling or towing capability). Or I can rent a car (sporty car or Jeep, pickup, SUV, van, etc.). I can rent a car for about $60 a day and when I'm done with it, I hand over the keys and my obligation ends with no ongoing registration or insurance or maintenance costs and I had use of the vehicle best suited to my needs at the time.

Having said all that, I find the electric car is now passed-by in favor of a Model T. When I retired last year I decided I had time (what time I have left) to drive a Model T just about everywhere - so I do.

[Burger in Spokane]

Electric cars have a LONG tradition of being ungainly and awkward
looking, to just downright ugly. Being the type that is aesthetically
driven, pretty much anything made since 1970 is something less than
what came before. Why own an ugly car when so many great looking
ones are out there ? Batteries, charging, reliability, ..... none of these
arguments even get a foot in the door with me because they have all
the good looks of a lawn trout. I'll stick with my stylish oldies because
it is the iconic image of Americana that is my primary motivation for
what vehicles I own and drive.

[Jim M.]

In my fleet of 4, it's actually the EV that I choose for long distance trips. Don't knock it 'till you try it, I say.
People are often left confused after I dispel some of the common myths they thought applied to all EV's across the board...
-Just wait 'till it needs a new battery, and how much would THAT cost?
-Takes an hour to charge during long distance travel
-Is impractical as a daily driver
-Is slow and inconvenient
One thing I always feel obligated to mention is I didn't buy it for any sort of environmental reason. With that out of the way, here goes...
-Battery will likely outlast the car's body. It's like asking a dealer how much a replacement engine would cost when signing the docs for a new car...try it, just to see the look on his face. Reliability is actually far superior to that of internal combustion cars, with very little required maintenance.
-I'm a left lane bunny, often tagging along in a pack of several cars that choose to keep a good pace. I stop every couple of hours (Sheetz/Wawa/Royal Farms) and only stay long enough for me to run inside to use the facilities. Average charge time = 9 minutes to go from ~10-60%. Yup, I unplug at ~60% and keep moving.
The car is super practical as a daily driver! Hop in and mash the accelerator, since there's no engine/transmission to warm up. Also, no yellow light will ever make me pause to wonder whether I'd make it through or not...no downshifting, no waiting to get into the power band, just an instantaneous rush of torque and the struggle to keep the back of my head from smacking the headrest. Two trunks to fit a ton of stuff and a smooth ride to keep fatigue at bay is the very definition of practicality!
Finally, with a low center of gravity, the car stays planted to the road and absolutely tears up the PA mountains and twisties of Lincoln Hwy between Mcconnellsburg and Breezewood!
All this at an average fuel cost of $0.03 per mile? I'll take it!
Sure, there something to be said for the satisfaction of caring for and riding a horse; just don't try sell me on the idea that my Tin Lizzie is some sort of a fad.

[TXGOAT2]

If an EV suits you, get one. An EV as offered today does not suit my needs... or wants.

I would consider a HYBRID.... if the IRS would quit grabbing at my income. I do have a private source of a substantial amount of "green energy" in the form of 3 wind turbines capable of as much as 25 KW combined output ... when the wind blows. Average output exceeds my current average consumption such that the utility pays me a "banked balance" every month of the year, which totals 1800 to 2200 USD a year in cash. But it's not free. Power is expensive, green or otherwise. "Green" power is very expensive, if you are the one paying for it, and so are EVs. Adding an EV or hybrid would wipe out the excess power production I currently have. I'd like to have a hybrid pickup truck, sized and styled like an older Ford Ranger... 1/2 ton, AC, AM/FM, 100 mile range on electric only, regen braking, no screen, no wifi, no autopilot. I'd really like to fit a hybrid driveline to a 1971 Ford 1 ton SRW with a 9 foot bed that I own. Keep the original 300 CID six and add a 250 ft lb electric motor and a battery set capable of about 120 miles of unloaded battery only travel. The battery would be mounted in the bed behind the cab, leaving about 6 to 7 ft of usable bed space and about 3/4 ton load capacity.

[Susanne]

Totaly different grid here than there, but everywhere I go there are a bunch of those "T" vehicles..... both private and used as taxis in cities.

I know when they first came out with the Model 3, there were a LOT of teething issues - they seem to be sorting themselves out. Used to be you NEVER bought the first year model (and sometimes the second) of a vehicle produced by the 2 letter conglomerate that is NOT Ford and NOT Mopar (er, Stellantis), and I suspect Musk is having the same new tech ew dwsign iaauw hat GM had (maybe has, IDK)... but I talked to a number of "3" owners when they came out, and ALL of them said they were in the shop or being repaired more than not. Not a hopeful sign...

The battery will continue to be the slow link as it takes SUBSTANTIALLY longer to fill a battery (otherwise they become a really pretty, bright fireball!) than to fill a gas tank. If you look at the mechanical systems of Teslas, they have a fairly robust and efficient cooling system - for said battery stack. If you semi-slow charge them when you're not using them (eg at home, asleep) and go less than 350-400 miles, they're golden. At least until they do like your laptop battery, wherein you need to replace it... ouch.

The one positive (sticking with EV's) that conventional lead acid has over NiMH is you can recycle the components and remanufacture them into a new battery... IIRC the Iron Alkaline (eg "Edison") cycle battery has a HUGE lifespan (decades) but lower output. You can store a LOT of oomph in NiMH batteries, but they aren't recycle friendly, and of course have that nasty habit of deep amperage overheating... charge or discharge too fast without keeping them cold, and you awaken the dragon.

[TXGOAT2]

I'm disappointed that EV batteries require a cooling system... which is added equipment devoted to dumping energy!
Under some conditions, the battery may require heat input, which also consumes energy, and it may even require heat input when the vehicle is not in service, which is a serious drawback in areas that experience cold weather, particularly if the vehicle is stored outdoors or in an unheated space with no charger connected.

[TXGOAT2]

The Optima Red Top battery in my T is dated 5 / 2013. Still works... car is running a stock generator and cut out.

[Norman Kling]

I live in a fire prone area where we even have to remove all plants within 6 feet of the house and then thin them out for the next 50 feet. And need to clear brush beyond that. Some roads are narrow. Our electric rates are very high even with solar rooftop panels. A few things scare me about going to electric cars. Unless one has a charging station at home, and even then if there is a power outage, many cars will have low or dead batteries. Sometimes we must evacuate if a fire is close by. What scares me is if cars run out of battery along the route and can't get out or block the roads stranding many others. Other problems, my understanding is that sometimes the batteries catch on fire and can't be extinguished with water. So would not want to store car or have charger in an attached garage.
Other problems are in cold weather. Heating in the car is electric so would use much more battery in winter. And what about a flooding situation where the water is low enough to drive slowly, but it would be deadly to get out in the ankle deep water to charge the car. So many things much more practical with gasoline cars. This "Climate pollution" problem is political and run by the business interests wanting us to buy their product. The air polution was reduced to almost zero before the electric car mandate. I could go on and on, but hopefully people will wise up and let us make our own choice what we wish to drive. They haven't outlawed horses, and they leave a lot of pollution!
Norm

[TXGOAT2]

There are no issues facing the USA today that cannot be dealt with by raising taxes and bringing in millions more "Immigrants".

[babychadwick]

Evs you typically hear "range" and "charging" as hot topics and for good reason. I just think 3 hours atop and go in FL with the AC on as "range" issues. I have seen Tesla on the road side after a long delay due to an accident. That's not my gripe though with EVs though, and it's the same gripe I have with most all modern cars. I currently drive a 25 year old suburban for towing. I know I can get parts and while it has a couple computers they are non existent compared to an ev or other. Can you imagine keeping any 2024 model running 25 years from now? An EV would be even more of a headache. For those who argue those lithium batteries will last "forever" this is the same technology and batteries being used in hand tools given comparable claims that never hold up right?

Long story short good luck buying an EV and keeping it long enough to pass down.