Steaming Radiator

[Herr_Wiebold]

Hello all! Looking for some quick advice from someone who knows better than I...

I just got my '25 TT running properly/driving for the first time, only to encounter a laundry list of issues to address. Chief among those, the steam you can see in this ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24nG3av6TT4 ) video. At this point, we had been dorking with the thing trying to get it going for an hour or so, so I'd understand if it was a bit hot, but to be steaming already seems excessive in my mind... Running about a gallon of "out of the jug" 50/50 coolant.

Any thoughts? Advice? I'm new to this, so anything helps!

[Pep C Strebeck]

Running about a gallon of "out of the jug" 50/50 coolant.

Any thoughts? Advice? I'm new to this, so anything helps!

Is that 1 gallon all that you have in it? If so, you are about 2 gallons short.

[Corvette Guy]

Oh boy, been there got that t-shirt.

My TT gurgles after I shut it down and guys say it is normal. They are also supposed to find their own level of coolant, typically right at the top of the fins, so you might be overfilling it causing it to steam.

You might want to check the temp at the inlet and outlet of the radiator to see if it is cooling, you can use an IR / non contact thermometer to do it.

Your timing could be retarded.

Your fuel mix could be lean, does the exhaust glow?

Most likely the radiator is plugged, there are lots of ways to clean it out from vinegar to store bought chemicals. Does your radiator have round (old style) or flat tubes (cool better)?

Do you have a water pump? They are typically an add on when the radiator isn't working right.

Grab your wallet if you need a new radiator. New ones are $850ish and you can have them recored for $625ish.

[Norman Kling]

They can boil when they get hot, however they don't steam heavily until the coolant runs low. I usually use water while I am working on the car to get it going, and then when I am sure there are no leaks, I drain it and pour in one gallon of the green anti freeze and top it off with distilled water. It is a bit less than 50-50 here, but we don't have freezing weather every year. Anyway, I think you are running too low.
Norm

[George N Lake Ozark]

Also run a thin coat hanger down the overflow pipe. These get plugged also when someone in the past put "Pellatized" stop leal in the Radiator
Like mentioned above check spark timing and have spark lever half way down when driving . Also check fuel mixture .

[Oldav8tor]

Usually when a T overheats fluid comes out the overflow tube. Like others mentioned, maybe your drain is plugged. I’d question the radiator as my 1917 with a new radiator never overheats but it will leak a bit if overfilled. If you know of an old time radiator shop you might see what they can do for it.

[Jeff Hood]

Steam from the radiator cap tells me that you don't have gasket/seal under the cap. I see heavy jackets and snow so it's cold and you can probably see your breath too and you are only 98 degrees! Normal radiator temp will be around 190 degrees so you'll probably see some steam or condensation in your case, and if it's not been moving because you've been "dorking" with it it may well be even hotter than that. Get a seal, I use a rubber sink drain seal from the hardware store or plumbing supply, and then the steam will come out of the overflow pipe and you won't have rust all over your hood and windshield. Advance the spark lever and get some airflow across the radiator and you won't see much steam. It will find it's own water level which is usually right about in the middle of the top tank. There needs to be a couple inches of room for the water to expand when it warms up. Check it every so often since it is an open system and pushing some steam and moisture out the overflow always, and have some fun.

[John kuehn]

You haven’t mentioned if the radiator is original, been cleaned out or is a replacement new one.
If it’s the one that’s been on you TT truck for many years and an original that could be part or all of your problem. They do wear out.
Radiators can fool you by looking like it may be in good shape. You can try the above mentioned in the earlier post’s and it may help the getting hot issue but after it’s all said and done it usually winds up the radiator that’s the main issue.
Good luck.

[TRDxB2]

Trying to recap - "just got my '25 TT running properly/driving for the first time. ... Running about a gallon of "out of the jug" 50/50 coolant." As Pep C asked "Is that 1 gallon all that you have in it? If so, you are about 2 gallons short". Reason for confirming this is that a mix of traditional ethylene glycol antifreeze with water in a 50-50 ratio increases the boiling point to only 223°F and water turns into steam at 212°F. If you are in Golden Colorado, elevation is about 5600 ft., water boils at 201 °F. Operating water temperature of a Model T engine (as noted by Jeff) is 190°F so you are very close to these boiling point values. I see that you are running a Motometer is it functional?; what does it say? is it sealed, cap too? Note to that there are stories where the additions of ornaments on the cap may cause the neck to loosen.
Bottom line - depending on how much fluid is in the radiator - you would be running near boiling point. From what other's have said - the expectation is that the steam should be coming out of the overflow tube so that should be the first fix, then investigate the cause.
Calculations of boiling point as a function of atmospheric pressure & altitude
https://demonstrations.wolfram.com/Boil ... fAltitude/
https://www.thermoworks.com/bpcalc

[CudaMan]

One gallon of mix isn't enough to get the thermosiphon action working, IMO. Pour in another gallon of mix, then check the level to make sure that it covers at least the tops of the radiator tubes. I usually fill mine until the level is up to the bottom of the splash guard at the bottom of the radiator neck, then let the system find its own level under operation via the overflow tube.

[Steve Jelf]

I won't repeat all the good advice above, but here's a page on cooling troubles: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG96.html.

If you go through all the remedies and still have overheating, it's time to change radiators. There are three choices. 1 Buy a used one. You might be lucky and get one that still works, but more likely it's being sold because it doesn't. 2 Buy a new one. 3 Have the old one recored.

I had my 1915 brass era radiator recored, and it's fine. For black era Fords like your TT I just buy a new Berg's. In both cases, no more overheating.

[Herr_Wiebold]

Thanks everyone for the great advice! A few things:

- I'll check the fluid level next time I have a chance; I seem to recall only a gallon of fluid being in there, but I'm not sure why I would've only put one in when the owners manual clearly says 3... Perhaps my memory is not what it once was!

- I'll try a rubber gasket for the cap. Right now I've got one of the OEM style ones in there, but it isn't quite thick enough (as the motometer kept rotating slowly when running).

- I'll try and run less advanced and with a slightly richer fuel mix. When trying to get it going for the first time, it kept firing off-beat and the thing that seemed to make it happy was a reduction on fuel from the carb. Perhaps I went a little too far, and it's running hot because it can't idle down.

- As a last thought, what are people's mindsets towards lowering fuel octane by mixing things in? It's my understanding that a T would be happiest with somewhere around 50 octane, while commercially the lowest I can get is 85.

If none of this works, I'll go searching for a water pump and a better radiator after that. Hopefully my elevation isn't too tough on the TT, though I'm sure my local club can provide some hints to help with that. Thanks again everyone, and happy holidays!

[TRDxB2]

Not gas again .... "Octane Ratings At Altitude" https://www.mikeshawsubaru.com/service/ ... titude.htm "They say the air is rare here in the Rocky Mountains, and that actually has an effect on how your engine performs. Because the air is less dense, less air flows to your car's engine. This translates to a slightly richer air-fuel ratio, and deters engine knock. For that reason, you'll find that regular gas carries an 85 octane rating here in Denver and throughout Colorado, Wyoming, Utah and Montana. In most states, regular unleaded is rated slightly higher at 87.
In most cases, you won't experience any problems running 85 octane in an ordinary car when a few thousand feet above sea level"

Forget the water pump and buy a Berg Radiator (doesn't recommend ornaments on the neck). Many members have highly recommended BERG's - I have one. http://www.bergsradiator.com/modelt.html
If you really want a water pump I have a nice, cool looking one, one I'll sell you for $50 plus shipping

[Steve Jelf]

If the radiator can't be made to work I would forego the water pump Band-aid and put that dough toward purchase of a good radiator.

[Dan Haynes]

Congratulations on getting it running and moving, but work on getting it running right. A Model T should run smoothly and accelerate evenly without sounding like a backfiring jalopy out of a 1930s comedy or like a cartoon car. Find the one or two components (coils, timer, plugs) that are troublesome and make them work. Anything else you do before that is just spinning your wheels.

With snow on the ground, your radiator could be pretty goofed up but still work well enough to keep from boiling/steaming. Check the coolant level and, is the fan belt still on? The flat belts can "petrify" in one position and fly off pretty easy if the truck has been sitting a long time.

Model Ts have the simplest carburetors ever, there is only one adjustment and it's intended to be adjusted from the seat. If the float level is right and if the idle passages aren't plugged, it should do what you need it to do. Check for possible vacuum leaks around the intake manifold at the carburetor and also at the block. Do a routine compression check. Any stuck valves? That happens after sitting, too.

After you have made it run like it is intended, if it still runs hot you can go crazy with new radiator.

[VowellArt]

The only thing I would add, is try soluble oil instead of coolant....coolant is made to reduce heat in pressurized cooling systems (like in modern cars). Nothing on a Model T or TT for that matter is pressurized other than the tires. Soluble Oil is made to reduce heat in non-pressurized cooling systems and it also does all the nice stuff that coolant does (ie prevent rust, and prevent the rubber hoses from cracking) and yet is not quite as toxic, it also doesn't boil away, so no need to add more to it every bloody year either and it works better than coolant in a thermosyphon system too...but it is a bit more pricey than coolant and you've got to get it from machine shop supply outfits, like WW Graingers, most folks refer to it as Cutting Fluid, but since you're not cutting anything, it does what it was designed to do...remove heat.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

The only thing I would add, is try soluble oil instead of coolant....coolant is made to reduce heat in pressurized cooling systems (like in modern cars). Nothing on a Model T or TT for that matter is pressurized other than the tires. Soluble Oil is made to reduce heat in non-pressurized cooling systems and it also does all the nice stuff that coolant does (ie prevent rust, and prevent the rubber hoses from cracking) and yet is not quite as toxic, it also doesn't boil away, so no need to add more to it every bloody year either and it works better than coolant in a thermosyphon system too...but it is a bit more pricey than coolant and you've got to get it from machine shop supply outfits, like WW Graingers, most folks refer to it as Cutting Fluid, but since you're not cutting anything, it does what it was designed to do...remove heat.

From a machining point of view, soluble oil is not meant to remove heat. Water can do that just fine. Soluble oil is meant to prevent corrosion and add lubricity to the metal cutting process, which improves tool life. In a cooling system, it's just preventing corrosion.

[John Codman]

I agree with Steve Jelf. Go through the cleaning process, be sure that you have no vacuum leaks and that the ignition is in good shape, then if you still have the problem it's time for a new radiator. I am assuming that the cooling system is full. From some of the comments I assume that you live in a high-altitude area; as the air is less dense, a given volume of it contains less Oxygen then it would at sea level. To maintain the correct fuel mixture you will have to add less gasoline. Your proper mixture will be leaner then it should be at sea level.
Someone said that a T engine will run at about 190 degrees Fahrenheit. My '27 runs at 170 measured at the top tank of the radiator, and with a new Berg's radiator you can't make it overheat here in Sunny SW Florida. Even with the temperature in the mid to high 90's it's fine. If your T is going to be driven much, you want a flat-tube unit. BTW - I love the look of your T in the OP.

[TRDxB2]

I accept the fact that soluble oil is an effective coolant and corrosion preventer. I have found many supporting reviews of that fact and its use as a coolant in radiators. BUT I was unable to find anything related to its capability as an antifreeze or what effect cold temperatures have on it. Does it thicken like most oils do - not really a problem as long as it remains fluid enough to travel through the radiator and get heated by engine temperature. Does anyone know approximately what temperature it freezes at? Need to confirm that a hibernating garaged T wouldn't get damaged at below freezing temperatures (around here late January & early February can see overnight temps -20F to 0 F)

[Rich Bingham]

Frank, soluble oil is, well, soluble. It dissolves into the water giving it a milky appearance, and doesn't separate from solution. If it has any capability to lower the freezing point of water it is minimal. Antifreeze it is not ! I've used it in cooling systems for years with good results. Opinions may differ.

[TRDxB2]

Frank, soluble oil is, well, soluble. It dissolves into the water giving it a milky appearance, and doesn't separate from solution. If it has any capability to lower the freezing point of water it is minimal. Antifreeze it is not ! I've used it in cooling systems for years with good results. Opinions may differ.

I doubted it as an "antifreeze " but was seeking information on its temperature range of use. No doubt about the high limit from reports and experiences but there isn't any information to guide members on its use in colder temperatures. So it many not be an alternative for everyone.

[Rich Bingham]

Frank. Dim light bulb flickering here. Your concern for the "cold range" of soluble oil seems to indicate your thought is for filling the cooling system with soluble oil ?? Perhaps that's a possibility, but I'm unaware of such use. For my part, I use a pint of soluble oil in Lizzie's cooling system - mixed into enough water to fill it. (3gal.)

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Soluble oil is not a coolant, any more than motor oil is a coolant. Yes, in the machine trades it's referred to as a "coolant", but that's a machining coolant, not an engine coolant. And, it's only a machining coolant when it's mixed with water, (or if it comes pre-mixed), not when it's just plain oil.

If memory serves, it also does not "dissolve" into the water to make some new substance. The oil exists as micro droplets, suspended in the water, that do not come out of solution. It's called an emulsion. My guess, is that the water portion of the mix will still freeze at about the same temperature as normal. What the freezing point of the oil itself is, I couldn't begin to guess.

[VowellArt]

I live in So, Cal, so it doesn't get too bloody cold here...usually, but as I recall the flash point of the soluble oil I'm using is 354ºF and it's pour point is -6ºC, and yes I mix it with water. I've never had any problems with it, cooling or otherwise, my car doesn't ever steam, nor gurgle when driving in rough areas (like the middle of the Mojave desert in summer, on my way to Calico for the day) or heading North up past Santa Barbara (using the back roads to Solvang and Los Olivos), and never had any problems, the engine head looks as clean on the inside of the water jacket as it the day I put her together back in 78.

Now as to engine oil, I never throw it away either, because it never really degrades, it gets dirty yes, but never degrades to where it doesn't lubricate as it is supposed to. When it gets dirty, I just run it through a Frantz bench top system ( https://www.frantzfilters.com/) and clean it, then throw it back into the car.

[Duey_C]

Brett, let us know if you were short of water/coolant or were full, would you? I'm glad you brought this up.
I fill water nearly up to the neck and let it potty out what it doesn't want.
Hey Brett, does your steering wheel need to be turned right side up? So it angles down.
Yep, I'm a water user in the T's and most of the other old OT engines here but always looking for more info about coolant.
Sometimes anti-freeze just isn't the answer for some of us. Drip, drip, drip.
Some details have come out that I've wished to see before. Saw/machining/drilling coolant (soluble oil) mixed with water in the radiator.
It does keep rust at bay on parts and machines. Don't like draining some rusty water.
A '28 OT 340 cu in engine has a new radiator and like the T's it potties some rust out at the end of the year.
Don't like that so extremely interested in some of the posts.