Feeling stupid - hard starting

[TXGOAT2]

Valve lash... valve spring tension... (?)

[Norman Kling]

In your picture, I notice the wire for one spark plug is very close to another spark plug. Do you suppose, a spark is jumping at the wrong time?
Norm

[AndreFordT]

Steve,
There is an easy way to check the gaskets on the intake manifold.

Just take a spray can WD40 with a pipet. Make the engine running and spray some WD40 around each gasket of the intake manifold.
If the engine start running better or worse you have a leak on that gasket.
Don't forget the gasket between the carburetor and the manifold.

Good luck
Andre
Belgium

[Norman Kling]

From your picture, it looks like one spark plug wire is touching the terminal of another spark plug. Is it possible that a spark is jumping at the wrong time and that plug is firing twice? That could cause it to run rough.
Norm

[Norman Kling]

From your picture it looks like one spark plug wire is touching the terminal on another spark plug. Is it possible that a spark is jumping to the terminal at the wrong timing? That could cause a missfire.
Norm

[John kuehn]

Steve I’m assuming that the spark plug wire shouldn’t be sitting on the top of another plug. That’s not good. Since youve got it to start fairly easy, let it run and get it to operating temp.
That will help it along for sure.

[kmatt2]

Steve, In today's picture, ( 7-4-2021 ), it looks like I can see the steel ring at the intake manifold to rear intake port. The copper crush ring should be crushed against the block and the intake manifold because the steel ring is a split ring and will leak at the split. Most likely the steel split ring needs to be trimmed and is currently bottomed out and not allowing intake manifold to crush the copper ring.

[speedytinc]

Steve, In today's picture, ( 7-4-2021 ), it looks like I can see the steel ring at the intake manifold to rear intake port. The copper crush ring should be crushed against the block and the intake manifold because the steel ring is a split ring and will leak at the split. Most likely the steel split ring needs to be trimmed and is currently bottomed out and not allowing intake manifold to crush the copper ring.

I think what you are seeing is a separate gland rig laying there to show the crush of the rings. All the new glands are red from the silicone.

[RajoRacer]

There WAS a time when the steel rings were being manufactured wider than original thus causing leakage issues.

[J1MGOLDEN]

Cars are like people, they need exercise to stay healthy!

[kmatt2]

No, it is not the extra glan ring that I am looking at. Look at the rear intake port by the E in MADE. There is shiney steel and then red, I would expect dull cast iron then red. It could be just the picture or maybe a aluminum intake, but is worth checking.

[Steve Jelf]

What Kevin is seeing isn't the steel ring. It's the intake manifold. The shine is from light hitting the black paint.
That #1 plug wire is across the #3 plug because I put it there to get it out of the way for the picture. It's normally far from any other wire or plug.

As Mart says, the fun never quits. Coolant is leaking out around the #1 head bolt. I suppose it is getting into at least one cylinder and probably down into the oil pan. It's my fault for following the head gasket directions which said not to use a sealant.

On the bright side, the car now starts on the first pull after three chokes. But I won't run it until I take care of that leaking gasket.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

You did a couple of runs. Try a re-torque before any thing drastic. Worth a try no?

[Norman Kling]

I wonder whether there is a problem with the gasket? A friend was franticlly trying to get his car ready for the parade and had a problem with the front leaking and then the rear leaking. He has a Ricardo head. I loaned him a bottoming top and a universal socket so he could torque the last two bolts with the torque wrench. He ran the tap down the holes, and checked the flatness of the head and block. Everything was straight and flat. He blew out the holes with compressed air. Then put on another gasket without any sealer. Torqued down everything, warmed up the engine and torqued again several times.
No more leaks. He entered the parade and finished without any more problems.
Norm

[Norman Kling]

I wonder whether there is a problem with the gasket? A friend was franticlly trying to get his car ready for the parade and had a problem with the front leaking and then the rear leaking. He has a Ricardo head. I loaned him a bottoming top and a universal socket so he could torque the last two bolts with the torque wrench. He ran the tap down the holes, and checked the flatness of the head and block. Everything was straight and flat. He blew out the holes with compressed air. Then put on another gasket without any sealer. Torqued down everything, warmed up the engine and torqued again several times.
No more leaks. He entered the parade and finished without any more problems.
Norm

[Steve Jelf]

Try a re-torque before any thing drastic.

Did it. Still leaking. The head is coming off.
And yes, I will be sure the bolt holes are empty.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Before putting head gasket on, use a bottom tap and clean out all bolt holes. Then install head without gasket and make sure none of the bolts are bottoming out in their holes. Repo or mismatched head bolts are often too long. Check the head and block surface with a flat edge to see if it’s flat and not warped. The head will need to be retightened several times through heat cycles. All heads have a sweet spot where they seal nicely, and it might be be beyond the first several tightenings.

[Dallas Landers]

I hope you get it figured out soon Steve. OCF is just around the corner.

[Ruxstel24]

I had a head gasket leak on my car a while back after putting a used aluminum head on it.
(What I was using for a straight edge, turned out to be not so straight).
Had the car running and drove it. The next day it would crank and crank and not one puff. I found the carb was full of water, drained the bowl and she lit up after a few revolutions....and filled the carb back up with water after it was shut off.
The water was running right down through the intake port to the carb. Milled 0.008” off the head to make it flat again and a new gasket. Not a problem since.

[Steve Jelf]

I hope you get it figured out soon Steve. OCF is just around the corner.

I expect I'll have it running before they announce the OCF. The THF website has said the news is "coming soon" since May.

[halftracknut]

To find intake leak with car running spray WD40 around manifold ...if you see it suck it in or hear change in running it is a leak....you probably already knew that...

[Steve Jelf]

During the war Gabe Heatter began every broadcast with, "There's good news tonight." And no matter how dire things seemed, he always found something positive to report. The good news I have to report is that the no-start/hard-start problem is apparently solved. Starting cold, I choke three times, flip the switch, and it starts on the first pull. The bad news is that it runs really rough, on both BAT and MAG.

But wait, there's more. Coolant around the #1 head bolt told me that the fancy no-sealant head gasket was leaking, and that coolant was getting into at least one cylinder and causing the rough running. So I pulled the head, chased all the holes with a tap, blew them out, and checked without a gasket to be sure the bolts would go all the way down. They did. So I put the head back on, this time using a new copper gasket with Permatex copper coat sprayed on both sides.

I prefer to let machinery do the heavy lifting, rather than my back.

Guide studs at front and center align the gasket and head perfectly.


With the head back on and properly torqued all around, I went to buy oil. When I got back from town I found this:

The old cliché not a happy camper applied here. After all the hassle of pulling the head and installing a new gasket, I still had a leak at the #1 head bolt. But a closer look shows that the coolant isn't coming up through the bolt hole. It's coming from a crack or a tiny hole near the bolt. So the supposed leaking gasket was a red herring, and the whole gasket change was unnecessary. Grrr...

So there are still two things to fix. A bit of JB Weld or the like will take care of the leak. No big deal. I've done that before. But what about the rough running? We shall see.

[DickC]

Steve, hard starting and rough running after start sometimes means manifold leak. What many of us do is use a propane torch (UNLIT) and pointed around the manifold with the engine running. If there is a leak you will quickly notice engine RPM change.

[paddy1998]

With the head off anyway I would consider removing the manifolds for closer inspection of the mating surfaces, removing the valve springs and check the valve timing and valve seating by touch; making sure they don't spin in their seats when closed. I know you just put them in, but I'd check anyway if it was me.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

[Quickm007]

Steve, hard starting and rough running after start sometimes means manifold leak. What many of us do is use a propane torch (UNLIT) and pointed around the manifold with the engine running. If there is a leak you will quickly notice engine RPM change.

Good tips Dick. Personnally I spray brake cleaner where I thought it may have leak and if they have leak when you spray the engine with brake cleaner the engine revolution slow down... So easy to see if you have leak.

[John_Aldrich]

...dead, like the coils don't even buzz?

No, by dead I meant no fire. Not even a cough or hint of wanting to fire. The coils are working and the plugs are sparking.

I haven't tried pulling yet, but I may resort to that.

I had a similar problem and pouring some oil into each cylinder (enough to seal the rings) finally caused it to suck gas. I also had poured gas into each cylinder with no change. With the oil in there it fired up in a big beautiful blue cloud of smoke and of course once the oil was gone so was the smoke.

[Steve Jelf]

I suppose I should update this. The car was running fast and rough, and wanted to die when I tried to idle it down. I did the intake leak test with WD-40 and found that the rear intake manifold port was sucking air. I took the manifold off and reinstalled it with new copper rings with some hi-temp RTV smeared on to help them seal. That cured the rough running, and the engine could now idle. That left the hard starting to solve. I reset the float level in the carb (Holley G) and made a new gasket for the top plate. So now the car starts easily on the first or second pull, or it doesn't and I get a big workout. Either one has to be with a rear wheel jacked up and the car in high or in neutral. With all four wheels down it's a no-go. Maybe eventually I'll figure out the difference between easy start and hard start. I must be doing something different, but I don't know what it is.