New Member wanna B

[Campbell Tellman]

I am looking at a Torpedo to restore.Is this a desirable model?
Campbell Tellman, Beaufort,NC

[Norman Kling]

It is one of the most desirable to restore. Be sure, however that it is complete or nearly complete, because the body parts are scarce. We had a beautiful one in our area, and I am sure many of us would have liked to have it including myself. However, I found out later that it had been shipped to someone in Australia! Maybe better it happened, because so many an the area might have been offended if someone else locally had gotten it.
Norm

[John kuehn]

Good advice for new Model T owners NO MATTER what kind of T you own is to read all you can about Model T’s ! You can find out a lot free on the forum BUT you need to educate yourself what a T can do and not do.
Buy the Ford service manual and READ AND STUDY IT !
Even if your good on working on mechanical things. READ AND STUDY THE BOOKS about how a T operates. It can save you time and possible grief when thinking things work this way and then don’t.
Remember that a T is 100 year old technology and not like the car or pickup you now drive.
Get the parts suppliers parts catalogs which are usually free. They can help identifying parts for the different year T’s.
One thing to definitely remember is a stock T doesn’t have real brakes like your use to. A basic learning curve to figure out!

[Wayne Sheldon]

Calling it a "torpedo" DOESN'T really define it! There are several wholly different types of model Ts that are called "torpedo". Ford built a specific body style called the "torpedo" for two years, 1911 and 1912. The cars those two years were different from each other, with the 1911 being the more unusual and desirable of the two.
The common runabouts of 1913 into about 1920 were sometimes called "torpedoes", even in Ford advertising and record keeping. For most people and hobbyists, "runabout" is the preferred term. However there are people that like to call them a torpedo.
A lot of model Ts called "torpedoes" are in the speedster realm. Linguistics and colloquialisms can get confusing. One of the boat-tail style speedsters I used to have was called a torpedo by its manufacturer. That was one of the preferred names for that style a long time ago.
Torpedo is also commonly used for very open seat and gas-tank speedsters, with or without fenders.

The value of a "torpedo", both historic and dollar, depends upon specifically what kind of torpedo it is, its condition, and how correct it is!.

Whichever type torpedo? They are among the most fun of model Ts to have and drive!

[Oldav8tor]

Be careful! A couple of years ago a friend new to Model T's was all set to buy a "1910 Torpedo" which was actually a car put together with parts from a 1914 thru a 1922. It looked good but authentic it wasn't....certainly not worth the asking price.

You need to contact the nearest MTFCA or MTFCI chapter and track down a knowledgeable Model T person to take a look at any prospective purchase with you. NC has a lot of Model T people. Buying a Model T is not like buying a modern or even newer classic car. There are many pitfalls that a knowledgeable person can help you avoid. Post info and photos to this forum and you'll get a lot of good advice as well.

[John kuehn]

If your looking to buy the car ask the buyer what year the title has on it and make sure it has a good title. As others have mentioned the term torpedo was used for the Roadsters. A photo would help to identify.

[Scott_Conger]

Personally, I think "Torpedo" defines it very well. It's certainly a lofty goal for a first "T" owner. The only advice I'd give for such an endeavor is to pony up the most $$ possible to buy the very best car possible, as that will ultimately be the cheapest route to take. The less you spend on a Torpedo (or any T), the more you can expect to spend in the long run to get it to what you want.

As an aside, you need to be of average or taller in leg length. These cars are NOT for short-legged folks. They're very beautiful and sporty looking cars but from a practical standpoint, are difficult to get into with the top up and carry little to no luggage space with them save for an accessory box mounted aft of the gas tank. Did I say they are very beautiful and sporty looking?

In 1911 among the various body styles there existed Runabouts, Torpedo Runabouts, and Open Runabouts; in 1912, among the various body styles there existed Runabouts and Torpedo Runabouts.

Within those two years and those two years only, the "Torpedo Runabout" or "Torpedo" as they are typically called now, were produced which are quite similar to each other, primarily different in their windscreen, with the 1911 having a rakish lower portion and the 1912 with a purely vertical windscreen. There are other subtle differences between the two years of course, but there is no disguising, faking, or modifying other versions of a Model T to anything which is or has been called a "Torpedo". I cannot imagine why or how the nomenclature of "Torpedo" could ever be confused for anything other than a very specific body style within a limited 2 year window. That said, I've seen folks make their own homemade body on late running gear and call it a Torpedo, but calling it a Torpedo, and it's actually BEING a Torpedo are two different things. I certainly would never mistake the homemade creation for the real thing.

I don't recall seeing any Ford advertising literature or documentation where later year cars were referred to as "Torpedo's", and while they may exist as ephemera, there certainly are no records of such a body style being produced in any other year beyond '11 and '12. I have seen literature for a 3 pedal 2 lever Ford, but again, that was an illustrator's error (fantasy?) and not a model of car that ever existed or was planned to exist.

[Campbell Tellman]

There is so much knowledge here! That's what makes this hobby so much fun. Every tidbit of info helps me learn and hopefully help others. As I learn more about this car I will post it. I do know it has an open valve engine with a five ball carb. The lower windshield does swing forward. It said to be original.
Thanks,
Campbell Tellman

[TRDxB2]

and there are Torpedo's https://www.google.com/search?q=torpedo ... zCQDjj-0nM

[Steve Jelf]

Folks who are new to the Model T game often make the same mistake I did: assuming that what they find on their new T is stock, or "correct". In fact, after a century a majority of T's have something that didn't come with them from the factory. It can be just one minor little thing, or the car can be a complete parts salad. There's nothing wrong with this until a potential seller misrepresents what he's peddling. Unfortunately that does happen. It's not always a dishonest presentation. Sometimes the seller truly believes that his cobbled-up car is actually "all original". So when a person shopping for a T doesn't have years of study in his head, it's a good idea to enlist an experienced advisor who knows Model T's to check out the prospective purchase. Lacking that, the second best approach would be to take lots of good pictures and post them on the forum with a request for comments.

[TRDxB2]

Adding to what Jeff said... The same is true for parts if you intended to restore it. Having said that you also need to decide what level of "originality" your intending to take it to and at what cost: what restoration skills you have, want to acquire or intend to pay for.
You need to keep receipts for everything you purchase or have serviced. If you would ever sell it or when inherited the IRS will view that "property" as a Capital Gain & the way things are going it will be more than today's 15%.

[TXGOAT2]

All original 1913 T-bucket!! LS, Getrag, coilovers, killer sound system, Recaros, beerkeg gas tank!

[MichaelPawelek]

Pat, Don’t forget that nifty OBDII port under the dash board.

[Norman Kling]

It all depends on what you plan to do with the car.
If you are going to show it in shows which judge on the "originality" of the car, then the best car would be one with every part authentic to the year and model.
If you are going to use it for a driver, you can still keep it looking very original and most people who see it, would not know the difference, and you will be getting dents and dings and need to replace or rebuild parts from time to time. Most years the entire engine and drivetrain are interchangeable even though not correct year for the date of the body. No problem unless you are planning to have the car judged.
Others want the look of an old car as modified in the day. These would be such cars as speedsters or cut off tourings made into pickups. Or depot hacks etc.
In our club, the only criteria, the engine block must be Model T. Other modifications might have been done to increase speed or horsepower or improve braking etc.
So I guess the first thing you need to do is decide what you want in a T and look at a lot of them.
Some people, like myself, enjoy taking a pile of rusty parts and making into a good looking and functioning T. Others like driving their cars but would let someone else work on them.
I would suggest that you look at many cars and take someone knowledgeable with you when you find one you like. It also costs less to buy a car in running condition and restored than it does if you buy all the individual parts and have the work outsourced.
But if you can do most of the work yourself, that might be the way you want to go. Also you might find one in good running condition to use while you restore another one.
Norm

[Scott_Conger]

Campbell

sounds like you are really asking about a car which you have found. If that is the case, the body will be one of the toughest things to find replacement parts for, so look at it with an eye for salvaging what is there.

Open valve engines and the earliest closed valve engines are so rare as replacements that I typically suggest to owners to remove them and put them away and put in a newer T engine if they intend to run them much and tour. T's are known to break their crankshafts. Not often, but enough to be a constant topic of conversation. The most catastrophic failures can destroy the block...thus my advice if planning on driving a lot. Tear the rear main out of a block and you can wait several years to find a replacement block and spend $5K-7K for it and THEN spend the $$ to rebuild it.

You are delving into rarified air with these early cars, so be aware that correct replacement parts can be excruciatingly expensive relative to the same part for a car only 2-3 years newer.

Engine = expensive
Rear axle = expensive
Body = expensive

Finally, you should know that all of the screws, brackets, and other bits which will be rusty with a trace of brass plating on them are all reproduced in solid brass. I rarely talk down parts which our great suppliers make, but the substitution for solid brass parts where brass-plated parts once resided is a poor practice for structural integrity. If you purchase this vehicle, on the off-chance that this vehicle has original screws, brackets, etc. Carefully remove them, bag/tag them and have them cleaned and replated.

Post pix of the engine, rear axle and some body photos to the forum to receive an enthusiastic critique of the car.

[Campbell Tellman]

My neighbor found a 1914 touring car. It had three owners. I had been in a garage for 25 years. It needs TLC but the wheels are good, the doors are solid and the replacement engine is not seized. It originally belonged to the sheriff in Jonesborough, TN. It even has two bullet holes in the cowl!
I am sure I will have lots of questions. I am excited to be a part of this group and I hope to be a good steward of this car.
Thanks,
Campbell Tellman
Beaufort, NC
1914 Touring

[Fire_chief]

Good luck with the '14. '14's were the last of the antique brass T's. I searched 40 years before I bought my first '14. A few years latter I got my 2nd '14.

[Dan Hatch]

What are you calling a cowl?
14 cars had a flat wooden firewall. No real cowl.
Pictures would be better.
Good luck Dan

[Campbell Tellman]

The hood spans between the radiator and a cowl. I am going by the title which says '14. I realize after so many years there could be misinformation. It has a brass radiator, headlamps, acetylene generator, spark and throttle control and tail and front sidelights.
When I can I will post a photo.
Is the engine the only place to find a vin?
Thanks,
Campbell

[Mark Gregush]

Re the serial (VIN) number, unless a new number was issued and a plate with the number was also issued by a state, the only number on a 1914 would be on the engine.

[TRDxB2]

Long thread and not sure if there is a Title for it to facilitate registering the car in your state. The purpose of a Title is to prove ownership of said vehicle and not pedigreed; that is the root of controversy. A vehicle is defined by Manufacture, Model, Year and VIN. The DMV is less likely to be concerned between the model differences (Roadster or Speedster), Year (like many others is it a 1914 or 1915), but seem to focus on VIN which doesn't apply to a cars built before 1954 and on the onset there was no standard until 1982. Since engines can be replaced at any time in the life of a Model T, so to be less than perfect, there needs to be an old looking tag on the vehicle (on the frame's passenger side) with the matching number on the Title's year.
When the Model T Protagonists look at you vehicle they will evaluate your vehicle on its parts and argue the Title regardless.

[Steve Jelf]

I am going by the title which says '14. I realize after so many years there could be misinformation.

Wise words. It's not a rare thing for these cars to be misidentified, including on the title. People misunderstand or misremember what they read or hear, and sometimes they mistake calendar year for model year. My 1923 touring was sold to me as a 1922. My 1924 TT project was also sold to me as a 1922. Neither was a case of calendar confusion. They were just wrong. With T's of the twenties a mistake of a year or two doesn't affect the value. When you get back into the brass era, each year earlier means increasing rarity and higher value.

[Model T Mark]

Be very careful what you buy as a torpedo roadster one in their correct form demand top dollars. I probably looks at 15 to 20 of them in the 80s before I settled on a complete correct restoration project. I looked at a lot of very nice copy cat cars during that period. Take someone who knows them with you when your ready to buy. Here is a picture of mine.

[Scott_Conger]

Campbell

In my opinion, having a replacement engine in a '14 T diminishes it's value, so allow for that if negotiations ensue.

If it is a $2000 heap, then mox nix, but if $12,000, then it's a problem.