Operation of combination ignition and lights dash switch

[jwipprecht]

My 1919 Tudor has the keyed switch that appears to be quite standard. The back of the switch says CLUM. The key in the front says Ford. The switch face has DIM OFF ON in large letters around the top and, in smaller letters, BAT on the left and MAG on the right side.
I have an original 1919 Ford Manual. Among other things, it explains how to remove the engine ... but not what to do with the key and the lever underneath it!! I assume either the key or the lever selects DIM OFF or ON and the other then goes to either BAT or MAG but I don't know which does what and I do not want to break anything. Help. Thanks.

[Norman Kling]

The lever is the light switch. either dim or bright. The key turned top to left connects the coils to battery, and the key to the right connects to magneto. Note: If you turn the key to batt to start the car, and have a working magneto, make the switch at idle or fast idle but not when driving the car. If you switch while driving you you will get a backfire and could blow a gasket, or muffler.
Norm

[jiminbartow]

It sounds as if you have never cranked your car. Please be very careful, as it can be very dangerous to do so without knowing the correct procedure, specifically how to set the levers prior to starting and what to do after it starts. The car can break your arm at the least and, worst case scenario, can run over and kill you if you forget one of the crucial steps such as set the emergency brake lever, so be sure you study the correct procedure before attempting to start it. As for your question regarding the switch… the key switches to BATT to the left to start the car and quickly to MAG to the right, after the car starts. The lever turns on the lights. DIM to the left and High beams to the right. Jim Patrick.

The article on how to start and drive a Model T was one of two articles in the July, 1963 issue of Popular Science magazine, celebrating the hundredth anniversary of Henry Ford’s birth. This issue is what first got me interested in Model T’s when I was 9 years old. I saved it and this article is what I used to learn how to drive my T in 1972 when I finished restoring it. The fellow flying into the Model T was a takeoff of a popular TV commercial of the time, featuring a person falling from the sky into a Hertz rental car. Their slogan was “let Hertz put you in the driver’s seat”.

[TXGOAT2]

Good advice. A Model T is not dangerous, IF IT IS HANDLED CORRECTLY, including starting procedure, and operated within its limits once started and running. The various controls and linkages must be adjusted correctly, and used correctly for safe, easy starting and maximum control when driving.

[jwipprecht]

Wow all these replies already. Thanks!! This car will run again, after over 70 years of inactivity. I have not started it yet. Much cleaning. Hickory nuts in the head. Etc. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again. John

[Steve Jelf]

Don't let them scare you, but yes, you do need to be careful. What Jim says about the car running over you when you start it really can happen. I once forgot to set the hand brake, leaving the car in neutral with the brake off. A Model T is never completely in neutral. When I started the car it rolled forward, knocked me over backwards and pinned me to the floor. I wasn't hurt, but the left front wheel was on my pants leg and the car was pushing forward, so I couldn't get up. I phoned the sheriff's department and had the nearest deputy come and shut it off so I could get up. I was worried about the car running fully retarded all that time I had to wait for him to get here, but it didn't seem to do any damage.

The more dangerous potential comes with improper starting. Crank starting is perfectly safe if you do it right. If you don't do it right, Lizzie may break your arm. https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG101.html

I believe Murray Fahnestock's chart of spark and throttle positions that Jim posted is for driving on BAT. On MAG there are effectively only three or four spark settings. Also, at this point most levers and quadrants are worn enough that you can't count notches anyway.

[Norman Kling]

Since you have not yet started the car, I would suggest that you read up of how to start the car. If you have a starter, you would not need to block the front wheels if you have access to the brake pedal. I would, however, strongly suggest that after you clean the nuts out of the engine and are sure the engine will turn over and the valves are not stuck and everything is good to start, that you also check the timing of the timer and clean up the points in the coils. Possibly even replace with rebuilt coils and a new timer. Check out all the wiring to be sure you get juice to the coils and the lights. Could also need to clean the carburetor or replace with one rebuilt. Clean the spark plugs and set the gap. When ready to go, put a few drops of oil in each cylinder and crank it over a few times before you turn on the ignition. Then follow the starting instructions given above. It might even be necessary to pull the car and start in high gear, the first time you start it. If you attach a rope or chain for pulling, connect it to the frame or to the front spring between the frame and the shackle. Do NOT connect a rope to the center of the front axle or you risk a bent axle.
In fact, if there is someone in your area who is familiar with Model T's it might be a big help to have them assist you the first time you attempt to start.
Have fun.
Norm

[Robert Kiefaber]

“1919 Tudor Sedan” Could be a Centerdoor Sedan.

[TXGOAT2]

It would be very helpful if you could locate someone in your area who is familiar with Model Ts who would be willing to assist you. A demonstration of how to start and run the car is a great help. An experienced person can also explain what to look for if the car does not start readily or run normally, and what to do about it. I would suggest getting the car outdoors and away from obstacles and people before starting and driving it.

[John kuehn]

You may need to make sure your switch is working to begin with and it might BUT after many years the copper contacts inside the switch get tarnished and slightly corroded. A quick way to clean it is to move the key back and forth several times or more to get the contacts fairly clean. It might work. As a matter of fact ALL electrical connections especially the battery connections.
Good luck!

[Oldav8tor]

Welcome John. North Bay, eh? Beautiful country - it'll be fun to explore when you get your Model T going.

Switches can be problematic but fortunately they can be repaired. As others have mentioned you might want to clean up the contacts and using a volt-ohmmeter to check continuity might help to determine whether things are connecting like they're supposed to. Replacement parts are available including the switch backs although you need to determine whether the back is held in place by pins or clips. Check out Lang's or Snyder's. There is also Ben Martin in Tucker, Georgia, who reconditions switches 770-93 eight- 33 seven-six.

wiring.pdf

(466.02 KiB) Downloaded 61 times

[Rich Eagle]

I believe this thread shows what lives inside that switch.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18703&p=142381&hilit=clum#p142236
FWIW

[RajoRacer]

I've never found replacement parts for the early type switches - just the later conventional type.

[Oldav8tor]

Good thing Rich is checking in. That switch is different than the ones I've dealt with. The advice to clean the contacts, etc., is still good.

[jwipprecht]

Yes Robert Kiefaber, I stand corrected ... the car is a center door sedan. I have done all the things Robert Kling mentioned and more. When the car was put in the barn in 1948 my uncle stored it properly and when I got it I could turn the engine with the crank. The nuts have been removed from the head. I got a set of one-piece valves as posts I read advised against using the 100 year old two-piece valves. Someone had been in the engine before, as there was one one-piece valve. I also got new valve springs. The timer was previously replaced and is in good shape. The transmission seems to be in great shape. I had the original coil boxes and vaporizer overhauled. All the contacts and terminals in the box the coils sit in has been cleaned.
The bottom of the engine was immaculate. I did a leakdown test by filling the cylinders with WD-40. It was still on top of the cylinders the next morning. New wiring where required. I replaced the parts of the muffler between the iron ends. I cleaned the rust out of the gas tank. The the shutoff on the potato was stuck and couldn't get it open so I got a new brass one. All those pesky grease pots have been dissassembled, the hardened grease removed and fresh grease installed.
I do not know the status of the magneto, starter or generator, other than they are not interfering with me turning the engine with the crank. I understand it should start and run without any of those if that switch is turned to BAT. I also need to check the brakes.
A mechanic friend of mine will supervise the reassembly of the engine and another guy in town with a Model T will assist with the first start. Thanks for suggesting I test that switch. I'll do that with a multi-meter.
The car has been very co-operative. All the nuts I turned came off except for one. Our local Home Hardware store has square nuts! Once the engine is running I'll replace the tires, straighten up the body so the doors close, try the lights. There is still some black paint on it. I am not going to touch the body.
One thing I could not find is a particular type of Kelsey rim (only one lug) for a spare to ride on the back. I have another post about that. Thanks all. I see there is another forum for pictures and I'll have to reduce the size of the ones I have so I can post.

[TXGOAT2]

I suggest going over the entire car and lubricating everything that moves on the chassis and the body. That includes springs and door hinges, latches, windshield moving parts, brake rods, pedals, throttle and spark linkages, generator, all control pivot points, and so on. I'd use a penetrating oil first, and follow up later with a light oil, such as Marvel Mystery Oil. Wipe any excess. Springs will benefit from oiling, and I've found that a spray-on graphite product works very well on springs. If you have wood wheels, read up on them and keep an eye on them for any sign of looseness or other failure. Be sure the axle nuts at the rear hubs are tight. If the car has a water pump, it will need to be serviced. I'd want to used a good vaccum cleaner to remove as much dust and loose debris as possible from interior areas and around window channels. Be sure any drain holes in the lower part of the doors and deck lid are not clogged. You might want to add a fuse to the body feed wire in case of shorts in the wiring. If the generator does not begin charging immediately after starting the engine and getting it above idle speed, it might be a good idea to remove and tape the generator wire at the cutout terminal and ground the generator output terminal until the cause of the problem is located.

[MichaelPawelek]

Be sure you read up on checking the thrust washers in the differential. If the original metal type they may be worn out or totally gone which is dangerous. If someone replaced them with bronze thrust washers you might be just fine.