Mounting Tires on 1912 Clincher Rim Advice

[Distagon2]

Looking for some advice on mounting tires onto my clincher rims for my 1912 Roadster. I searched through the archives and found all sorts of information but thought it might be time to get some "fresh" advice. I had wheels rebuilt by Stutzman using new rims (see pictures). My immediate questions are:
1. Would you advise mounting the tires first before painting the wheels? Obviously that would be quite a bit of masking but given the horror stories about mounting these tires I wonder if that would be the thing to do to avoid chips in the paint.
2. What about tire flaps? I have some but are they needed when I have nice smooth rims versus old rusty rims. One benefit I can understand is they can help avoiding a tube pinch/puncture during mounting.

Then I see there are all kinds of tricks to help tease the tire on the rim, from baby powder to non-pumice GoJo. Like I say, I know this issue has been discussed and re-discussed but I welcome any "fresh" advice.

[Scott_Conger]

Gregory

I will weigh in on question #2: rough rims in my opinion almost always send me off to buy flaps...yours are brand new, so that reason is not valid; ease of installation without worry of pinching tubes and creating a latent failure is still a valid reason; and finally, no new tire has the cross-section of original tires and thus, the tube definitely extrudes and makes sharp changes when pushing past the tire and pressing on the rim (and I firmly believe that this can be a problem).

Now, on the other hand, since you have some reason to not use flaps, I'd ask: are you going to drive this car frequently over 35MPH and are you going to add balance beads? The nay-sayers on flaps often cite the unbalance they can cause a wheel assembly and that is in practice often a valid concern. This one question could push you one way or another in the totality of plusses and minuses.

so there you have it...some pro's and con's

personally I like them, and use them, but I have never been faced with a new wheel and the questions it brings

good luck which ever way you go, and BTW, they look beautiful!

[John iaccino]

I would paint/stain the wheels first. Put flaps in, wrap the ends of the tire irons with electrical tape to minimize the scratches, put both beads on at the same time.

[jawa]

When I mount my tires on rims, I use motorcycle rim protectors. They snap over the outer lip of the clincher rim and you can use your tire irons without scratching the rim.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Embrace all that is the model T! I would paint the wheels first, then mount tires. Chips can be touched up and belong there. But, that is is silly me.
You certainly want to put a heavy coat of paint inside the rims before putting the tires on, to protect those nice new rims from rusting aggravated by moisture trapped between the tire and the rim. One of the main causes of ruined rims is splashing in a few puddles allows water to work its way inside and get trapped there, where it increases the damage caused by future rust.

[Model T Ron]

The wheels look great. Any chance you can tell me who re-spoked them?

[TXGOAT2]

Any paint on the wheel rims is likely to get some damage if you drive the car. Using enamel on the rims will give a good finish and allow for touch ups.

[Distagon2]

Noah Stutzman in Baltic, Ohio did the wheels. I am extremely pleased with his work.

[MichaelPawelek]

(1) Mount the tires from the back side of the rim so any paint damage is on the inside.

(2) Try to mount the tires at the highest air temperature possible. IOW- Mounting clincher tires in the Summer in the hot sun is a lot easier than mounting them in the cold of Winter. “Warm rubber stretches easier than cold rubber.”

[Distagon2]

Hi Michaeal, do you remember me (Greg Jones) on this forum about 20 years ago or so giving you advice on how to adjust the clutch on your newly acquired Model T? Sheesh, maybe even longer ago than that!

[MichaelPawelek]

Yes, I do remember. The forum was much smaller back then and names were a lot easier to keep track of at the time. Still have that original Model T and almost know how to adjust the clutch now. . Good to hear your name again after all these years…..

[Distagon2]

Scott, my plan for this car is to restore it very nicely, as authentically as my talents allow. I have a 26 Model T Coupe and a 1931 Model A Victoria, and I rarely drive the Model T owing to where I live. Heck, the traffic is so crazy where I am I get nervous taking a modern car out in traffic let alone a Model T. It just does not do well in today's crazy traffic. People don't realize they don't go fast and don't stop fast, typically. There are some country roads close by that if I can make it through the crazy traffic I can enjoy an easy, enjoyable 35mph ride for miles. My nervousness and paranoia driving antique cars in modern traffic is attributable to a nasty accident a few years back when a car pulled out in front of me. I was driving a Model A Roadster which was totaled, and I was nearly totaled. Bad memories. Anyway, this 1912 has special meaning to me as it was previously owned by Ken Jones in Washington state (later he moved to Minnesota). I knew Ken then and helped him with a few things on the car. That was 50 years ago. All that to say, even if I only take it a mile down the road and back once in a while, I will be happy. Nonetheless, I like to restore my cars to be as robust as they can be so even if this 12 Roadster doesn't wind up being driven much, I want it in a condition where it could be taken on tours, etc. without a second thought. Long winded way of saying I will probably go with the flaps!

[Steve Jelf]

If your wheel paint requires a primer use black so scratches won't show. I prefer appliance epoxy enamel that doesn't need a primer. I believe it's easier to mount a clincher tire with the wheel on the car rather than on the floor. Have just enough air in the tube to make it round so you wont pinch it, but not enough to spread the tire open. Powder with talcum. Put the valve stem through its hole at the top of the wheel then rotate the wheel to put it at the bottom and let the car down just far enough to hold it there. Pry both beads onto the rim together. Use long irons. Mine are two-footers from HF. Short irons (i.e. Ford Model T irons) make it the job from Hell. It's much easier to mount warm tires than cold ones.

Flaps or no? I don't use them. I've had flat tires, even blowouts, but none that I can attribute to lack of flaps.

[TRDxB2]

A very controversial approach to mounting a tire on a clincher rim without tire irons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6sH8WR ... eRefresh=1
Worth a try anyway....

[KimDobbins]

I rarely go to Harbor Freight and have never recommended anything they sell.that being said, they sell 24" tire irons that perform well and are cheap!

[Loftfield]

Just finished putting two new front (30x3) Blockley's on my 1912 touring. I am not inherently good at this task, and this one was bad. The tires went onto the rims just fine, but the bead refused to go under the clinch on the rim (no rust, smooth metal). Finally had to use a bead-breaker pushing on the center of the tire while pounding with a modified cold chisel with a very small amount of air in the tube (5psi) (Sounds far worse than it really was). My tire store also failed, utterly, to get the tires on the rims so I didn't feel too bad. I found that Crisco made an excellent lube on bead and clinch. I would have preferred to use flaps, but in this case there was simply no way the flaps were going to allow the beads to get under the clinch, just too much material in the way. I use a protective strip of rubber around the inside of the rim to prevent anything from touching the spokes, rivets, and other protuberances, and I think the Blockley's leave little room for the tube to squeeze into trouble. Also used Blockley tubes which are twice as thick as the other tubes available. We will see if this system works after we drive a bit more.

I always paint wheels and spokes first then touch up after installation of tires. I don't pretend to have an AACA 400 point car, not my thing, I drive.

[RajoRacer]

I attempted the "plastic bag" mounting technique once - took hours to get torn bag bits out from under the clincher !!!

RuGlyde is one of the best rubber lubes for mounting as well as NoMar tire lube paste !

[John kuehn]

Tire irons at least 2 ft long make a very big difference along with a good tire soap of some kind! More than a few T owners have scratched their head trying to do the job only to find out long tire irons will do the trick.
This is an area where Ford could have had a better idea!

[speedytinc]

Just finished putting two new front (30x3) Blockley's on my 1912 touring. I am not inherently good at this task, and this one was bad. The tires went onto the rims just fine, but the bead refused to go under the clinch on the rim (no rust, smooth metal). Finally had to use a bead-breaker pushing on the center of the tire while pounding with a modified cold chisel with a very small amount of air in the tube (5psi) (Sounds far worse than it really was). My tire store also failed, utterly, to get the tires on the rims so I didn't feel too bad. I found that Crisco made an excellent lube on bead and clinch. I would have preferred to use flaps, but in this case there was simply no way the flaps were going to allow the beads to get under the clinch, just too much material in the way. I use a protective strip of rubber around the inside of the rim to prevent anything from touching the spokes, rivets, and other protuberances, and I think the Blockley's leave little room for the tube to squeeze into trouble. Also used Blockley tubes which are twice as thick as the other tubes available. We will see if this system works after we drive a bit more.

I always paint wheels and spokes first then touch up after installation of tires. I don't pretend to have an AACA 400 point car, not my thing, I drive.

Are you sure the rim strip wasnt the problem? That loose rubber strip will go wherever it wants. If it gets in the clincher bead area, it makes the bead too thick to lock in. Thinking the flap would add too much material? The flap is totally up in the tire. This is an odd situation.

[TXGOAT2]

RuGlyde or Murphy's tire lube work well.

[George Mills]

I use homemade 'spoons' as the 'put 'er ons'. Sorry no picture, the '15 is now at the sons for renewed stewardship....

Take a pair of more modern standard drum brake ratchet adjuster levers and grind the angled end to really be a 'spoon' shape where no final edge is an actual 'edge' but all soft radius. Then simply 'walk' the bead in place using two like back and forth chopsticks around the rim...works 100% of the time for me...but I've had lots of practice over the years, especially when the first 2 times using standard levers I had. 'leakers' when done...lol (I also always 'start' at the valve stem...just seems to be easier).

[Scott_Conger]

As I read about Blockley tires and and more pertinently, tubes on this thread, I do want to say that Blockley recommends NO flaps when using their tubes. Their tubes may well be twice as thick as their competitors. Believe me when I say that they are THICK and HEAVY DUTY.

I do not believe that using flaps would be deleterious, and they don't say to NOT use them...just that they do not recommend them as necessary.

[Norman Kling]

Three tire irons and two people work the best and also a rubber mallet. As you push one area in, starting with the valve hold in place with two irons each side and then take the third iron and flip another area and hold it in place while you remove the iron next to the area you just flipped and flip another area and repeat till you get all the way around. Best to alternate from one side of the valve to the other as you go around so the last part to flip is opposite the valve.The flap actually helps you because it keeps the tube from getting between the beads so that they can come together in the center without anything between.
A couple things to do first before you start flipping is to cut a notch on the inside each side of the bead just large enough to fit around the valve stem. put just enough air into the tub to push it against the inside of the tire without pressing out the bead of the tire. The rubber mallet is used just enough to seat any area which does not immediately go all the way into the rim.
After the tire is all the way on, be sure the valve is straight. then fill the tire with air to full inflation. Then let all the air out so that any area where the tube is stretched will even out all the way around. Then fill about 30 psi and bounce the tire around to get the tube settled Then fill to 60 psi and drive away!

[Steve Jelf]

Three tire irons and two people work the best...

True, but if you're new to this game don't get the impression that doing the job solo is murderously difficult. Very seldom have I ever had any help with a tire change, but with long irons and a bit of experience I don't find it an arduous challenge.

[speedytinc]

Three tire irons and two people work the best...

True, but if you're new to this game don't get the impression that doing the job solo is murderously difficult. Very seldom have I ever had any help with a tire change, but with long irons and a bit of experience I don't find it an arduous challenge.


IMG_9694.JPG

I have found, especially as shown in your picture, the job is a snap.
You have a lot of good going on.
The tire is pre-streched & warm & the wheel is held in a good position to work the tire & new tube back on.

[Steve Jelf]

The tire is pre-streched & warm & the wheel is held in a good position to work the tire & new tube back on.

In this case the blowout was because the tire was toast, but putting on the spare was, as you say, not difficult.

[SurfCityGene]

You didn't say what size tires you are putting on? My experience with my '12 Torpedo is that the 30 x 3's on the front are much harder to get on than the 3 1/2's on the rear!!! Stain or original color paint on the spokes? I keep some Thin plastic pieces from like a milk or ice cream container to use for rim protection. I couldn't use flaps in the front but do in the rear.

I highly recommend balance type beads if you are planning on very much driving especially over 20mph. It's easiest for me to mount the tire on the car like Steve mentioned. I caution the use of some home brew lubes. A Small opening at the bead for the valve stem on the 3 inch tire really helps. There can be quite a difference between brands of tires and how easy they mount. Good Luck

[DickC]

I like the ideas of using a trash bag and the rim shield but I have used another method for years. I have four pieces of leather about 3 inches by 6 inches that I put over the rim under the tire iron. I keep moving the leather so it is under the tire iron. I use three tire irons. Always get the tire warm in the sun or near a heat vent in the shop. I keep the tire irons, valve stem puller and leather in the running board tool box.

[TRDxB2]

There are trash bags, 1 to 3 mil, and there are trash bags 6 mil. Smooth finish but 3 or 6mil? I also like the leather approach, soft, tough and flexible.

[Allan]

If you lightly inflate the tube inside the tyre, use a proper rubber lubricant like Ruglide, fit the valve stem and hold BOTH beads in the rim with a clamp, you can lever BOTH sides of the tyre on at the same time. Long levers help and another set of hands come in handy as you walk the levers around the tyre. At the end you may have to use a rubber mallet to seat the last little bit of one side of the tyre. There is no need to cut notches in the bead if you use this method. Nor do you need flaps to protect the tube from the irons.

Hope this helps someone.
Allan from down under.

[bobt]

1915 Touring wood spoke clenchers non-demountable wheels. Hello. When I replaced all of my tires about two years ago, I too tried all of the tricks and none worked for me. The garbage bag was the worse! (Again, FOR ME) I started by removing the old tires which had to be sawed off. I agree with Steve Jelf, I bought flaps but did not use them. I used MOTORCYCLE RIM STRIPS. Buy the largest size your local motorclcle shop has. Keep your new tires warm by keeping them inside. (The wife will love this step!) Start by leaving the wheel with rim strip in place ON THE CAR. do one at a time. Put the new tube in the new tire and use a little baby powder and inflate the tube fully.(leave the valve core IN) Jack up only the wheel you are working on just far enough off the ground to get the tire and tube under it. Position the valve stem hole of the wheel on the bottom. Put the new tire and tube in place and direct the valve stem with both beads in place on the rim. NOW here's the tricky part. SLOWLY lower the jack just enough so that the inner AND outer beads with the valve stem sticking out and the bottom sidewalls are squashed enough so that the whole wheel and tire wont rotate. (It's a good idea to put a valve stem retriever on the valve stem so it won't fall inside the rim) I used Go-Jo hand cleaner for lube on both beads. Using two Harbor Freight cheap chrome LONG tire irons and work both beads at the same time starting at the bottom of both sides and the should slip right on with no problems. I then removed the valve core and put a little air in being very careful not to let the stem slide in. I did this step three times to insure the tube didn't have any folds. I then inflated to 60-65 lbs. I drive my car a lot and had no problems using this method. Try not to do any HARD braking until the Go-Jo lube dries up. I hope this was helpful. bobt