T’s with Ruckstell and Warford

[Jacob Mangold]

I have recently picked up a Ruckstell axle for my 26 TT that already has its frame extended and a cast Warford installed. I have a shift lever that mounts to the back of the Hogshead and in this configuration I can see that there may be a little interference with the Warford. The frame is extended so the rod does not reach all the way and the Warford case is also in the way. What solutions have some of you TT guys that have a Warford and Rux come up with? Pictures are appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Jacob Mangold.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Jacob,
My BIL had a simular issue with his speedster. He made a aluminum plate that moved the Ruckstell shifter up & to the left then extended the arm
on the shifter so it was paralell with the shifter on the rear end. There is someone making a shifter that moves it ti the handbrake slot using a
jack shaft. As far as the goe's moving the shifter up & to the left you could use a jack shaft behind the Warford & use the original rod.
Craig.

[Scott_Conger]

Jacob

fellows in the Rocky Mtn region and So. Dakota region very commonly equip their cars with both Warford (or Warford style) transmissions coupled with a Ruckstell.

Perhaps change your title to encompass their cars and seek advice from them, too. There are going to be far more cars thus equipped than trucks, and their advice for ergonomics will be just as useful to your truck as their car since there is little difference between them.

Best of luck.

[Farmer J]

I believe Ed Archers #4 is equipped that way

[RajoRacer]

I have my Gramps' TT with a Warford & Ruckstell - stock length frame and I installed the Ruckstell w/high speed gears - made a shifter for the left side away from the Warford shifter.

[Jacob Mangold]

I appreciate the responses so far. One thing I’d like to confirm is that I would prefer to have the shifter in the middle of the floor near the Warford shifter. That would be ideal over the one in the brake lever hole with my setup.

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

[Scott_Conger]

What you're describing is how I seem to recall most fellows seem to do when using multiple transmissions...meaning both shifters are located near each other in the center of the floorboard. This almost necessitates some sort of auxiliary foot throttle...not mandatory, but is of great utility.

[Jacob Mangold]

There used to be one on my truck which was evident by the weird carb linkage and spring holding it at idle but it was removed long before I was born. No sign of it in the boxes tha we’re in the bed and weirdly enough, no hole in the floorboard for the rod. I don’t plan on shifting any of them on the fly, maybe the ruckstell if I know everything is tight and don’t have to worry about getting stuck between gears. Eventually, I’ll get Rocky Mountain aux brakes and then I’ll shift on the fly and get a foot throttle.

Thanks for the advice, Jacob Mangold

[Dennis Prince]

On my T with a Ruckstell and a KC Warford. I modified the Warford shifter and it stays out of the way and won't be accidentally knocked into neutral. You don't need a lot of leverage to shift and a foot throttle helps with the Warford.

[mtntee20]

I have a TT with a KC Warford and Ruckstell. The levers are close, too close but I can shift them. I plan on bending one a bit one way and the other a bit the opposite way. Just to get a little more clearance.

Lang's sells a Rucstell left hand shift lever. I purchased one to use on our Center Door. This lever is very much like the brake lever and actually uses the same slot. I'll try to post the link: https://www.modeltford.com/item/P189B.aspx
Let's see if this posts.

Good Luck

[Allan]

If a is used in the mountains, and is often loaded, there may be benefits to be had with multiple transmissions. Otherwise, why would it be done? All it will do is give many ratios between zero and Ford high speed. Even a high speed TT rear axle is only high speed when compared with the standard TT, still slower than a car. If changes are not to be made on the fly, much of any benefit gained will be lost anyway.

I can understand using a KC Warford, with its overdrive top gear, to get a better cruising speed for recreational TT driving, but without a step up in the final drive ratio, there is little benefit otherwise.

I know of a 27 T tourer in Spokane which runs a Moore gearbox and a Ruckstel, but it also has a 3:1 diff ratio, so there is the overdrive. The fellow who owns it is a retired trucker, used to driving with two shifters. I would consider a foot throttle as an essential, and lots of practice driving to stay in tune with the demands of operation. My bet is you will develop a driving pattern which will use just a few of the combinations available.

Allan from down under.

[Jacob Mangold]

The reason I want it on my truck is because it has the desirable 6 swirl worm and the good ring gear, making it faster. Also I don’t like for things to be easy .

Thanks for your guy’s responses, Jacob Mangold

[Dallas Landers]

Im following this post. My TT has the frame extension and a Chicago 3 speed. I have a high speed Ruckstell to install along with Rockies.

[Adam]

A warning if you are using an overdrive transmission and a full length TT driveshaft. The TT driveshafts are notoriously out of balance and some will make a terrible vibration in overdrive because they are turning at an increased speed.

[Original Smith]

I had them both in my '13 touring years ago. I got tired of the Warford, because the input shaft kept getting worn. I now just have the Ruckstell, and am happy with that alone.

[Jacob Mangold]

My great grandfather used this TT with the original length driveshaft and extended frame for 70 years. I am not going to change it. If it vibrates, oh well. It’s a 100 year old car. It’s not supposed to ride like a limousine. The point is that I want to put on the ruckstell on the truck and if I do not end up liking it, I can put the original rear end back on.

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

[Allan]

Jacob, a Ruckstel rear axle is intended to give gears ratios lower than Ford standard ratios.On a car, you end up with a gear between Ford high and Ford low, which allows speedier progress in hilly country. You already have that with the Warford. You will simply be adding more in between gears, and complexity selecting them.
You will have bragging rights though.

Allan from down under.

[Jacob Mangold]

I just want the intermediate gears and the higher ratio rear end to make more drivable and practical for normal road driving. There are a couple of hills near where I live but overall, it’s not a hilly area.

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

[Scott_Conger]

Jacob

as it came from the factory, it can pull bark off of a tree. I'd bet that you will have little trouble climbing hills in high gear and on the level, be topped out at 25-30MPH as it is. If it fell off a cliff, you'd be hard pressed to hit 35 and you'd probably survive the landing, to boot. My belief is that for most cars, a Ruckstell plus a 3 speed transmission giving you 12 gears is unnecessary in all but the most extreme circumstances, and in a Truck, a lot of trouble for nothing gained.

Take a moment to read this if you have not already, as it gives insight as to what a TT will/can do: https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35205

[Steve Jelf]

...as it came from the factory, it can pull bark off of a tree.

That's why I probably won't bother with installing the TT Ruckstell that's sitting in my barn. Even without any aux transmission, I doubt that I will ever need it.

[Erik Barrett]

The combination of a Ruckstell rear end with high speed gears and a Warford is the ultimate situation for TT trucks. Twelve forward gears, always one that is ideal for what is at hand. Makes a TT capable of 45mph or more so you can tour with your club without being late for lunch, and you can still pull a cruise ship out of dry dock if you need. I have had the same combo in T passenger cars and found it unnecessary.

[Allan]

The TT high speed gears are only high speed when compared with the 7:1 ratio of the slowwer TTs. The high speed 5:1gearset is still not as low as the 4.6:1 ratio of the standard T cars, so TTs will be slower at the same revs than other cars on tour. A different crown wheel and pinion gear set can be fitted in a car rear axle, to change the ratio. No such combination is available for a TT to my knowledge, so fitting a TT Ruckstel Will have no effect on the speed capabilities of the truck.

Allan from down under.

[babychadwick]

Stock T is 3.63:1

[Jacob Mangold]

The TT guys would just like to keep up with other T’s and traffic in general. We still want the ability to pull stumps but also want our trucks to be practical so we can use them more. Sure, 2 sticks clutters up a normal passenger car but my TT has no doors, giving it a bit more room. I’ve only rode in a 25 roadster pickup and a 15 roadster pickup and me and the driver were sitting shoulder to shoulder but when I drove one of my other adult friends around the block in my truck, it was fine. We had about 8 inches of room in between us and my friend was not up against the cab. All I’m trying to say is that a TT is more spacious and can afford 2 shifters in the middle of the floorboard. As I said before, if I hate it, I can put back on the stock TT rear end. I do not mind extra labor. All I wanted was some pictures of other folk’s setups that would be similar to mine.

Thank you, Jacob Mangold.

[babychadwick]

I helped my grandfather put together a 14 with a ruckstel and rather than a shifter there were two "buttons" for lack of a better word that could have either one stepped on to shift the ruckstel. Basically the shifter Ted under the floorboards then returned to vertical where it was threaded and went through the floor boards

[Allan]

Jacob, you are missing the point. A Ruckstell in a TT will not be of any benefit in keeping up with T's on tour. You need to do something about the final drive ratio, and that is not do-able with a Ruckstell.
I made a mistake with the final drive ratio on a standard T, and stand corrected. The real ratio only widens the gap between the cruising speed of a T and a TT.

Allan from down under.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Allan,
Please educate me on this you can't install the high speed ring & worm in a Ruckstell in a TT?
Craig.

[Allan]

Craig, of course you can have the 5:1 gear/worm set in aTT Ruckstell but this is no different to a non Ruchstell diff with the same ratio.
On a car, the final drive ratio can be altered by swapping available ring and pinion gear sets. A common one is the 3:1 ratio achieved by using a 39 tooth ring gear and 13 tooth pinion. There are various combinations to give a car an overdrive ratio. To my knowledge, there are no such gearsets available for TT rear axles. In the absence of these, a Ruckstell 5:1 is no different to Ford 5:1. A KC Watford will give a TT some longer legs due to the overdrive ratio it provides.

Allan from down under.

[Cordes_jeff]

As the owner and driver of 2 TTs with ruckstells, 5-1 gears, and 3 speed transmissions I will say the underdrive ratio of the truck ruckstells with a 5-1 in it is about 8-1. The 8-1 gearing is much better when climbing a mountain of a hill in a TT than the almost 10-1 your typical underdrive 3 speed would have pushing the 5-1. Also the ruckstells run much quieter and the noise is out of the cab. Having driven a fully equipped TT on a 1600 mile trip with Ts you want to get up the hill as fast as possible to stay with the heard. Also a TT ruckstell is a lot easier to shift going up hill than an old 3 speed. The 3 speed is handy for the overdrive aspects it provides. Also the TT driveshaft is not only unbalanced, it will wobble horribly if the engine is hopped up much. The added power and torque will make it almost undrivable if you put say an overhead valve head on your engine. I have learned these lessons the hard way.

[Poppie]

Allan and Jeff,
I agree with you both, My TT has a three speed Cast Iron War-Ford, Victor axillary gearbox mounted onto the worm shaft of my 5/1 high speed low ratio worm and wheel Ruckstell running on 32x4.5 tyres (23 inch) TT wheels. I preselect the three speed box from under the rear of the TT for the terrain to be covered and just use the ruckstell shifter for normal driving which i find is ample.(just one lever). Knowing of the vibration problems of the TT driveshaft i went for the fitting of the O/D box after the tail shaft to keep the RPM of the shaft as slow as possible. With the tail shaft shortened and balanced it runs like a dream and can stay with the crowd. It also has the five coils set up with a HCCT to a firing (TDC) position and starts and runs on magneto. The perfect touring vehicle. ....n