Fitting Accessory Brakes with Aftermarket Wheels

[DaveBarker]

I have Simplex wire wheels on my 1919 Speedster, with the original small drums. I'm considering adding accessory brakes, as it currently has only the original (narrow) transmission brake band. Question: Would any of the currently available accessory brake systems fit without modification on my wheels? To illustrate this, I've attached an end-view photo of the rear drum. You can see that the wire spokes may interfere with the fitting of an additional brake system. Any help/advice is appreciated, as always.

[Mark Gregush]

You might have to go with the hydraulic brakes. Small drum brakes might work but currently new ones are not being made so you would have to find a set of used ones. Larry passed away and the estate is still being settled from the information I have seen. If you went with the small drum brakes, those brake drums would not work, they are far too pitted.

[Allan]

Apart from the bad rust pitting, I doubt there is room, as the wheel hub extends part way over the drum.

Allan from down under.

[DaveBarker]

Thanks Mark & Allan. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking also; the wheel hub wouldn’t allow something like RM or AC style brakes. Hydraulic brakes aren’t out of the question, but would they fit?

[Craig Leach]

Hi Dave,
There are some options I set these up for a friend that has a small drum Ruckstell & wants to run wire wheels on his car. He's getting up in years
& does not want to deal with 30 X 3 1/2" clinchers any more. but wants to have Aux. brakes. They took some research but if a mechanic with a
lathe can do it most any machinest can. Nice wheels! as far as I have heard from the guy taking care of Larry Sidmores A-C brake stuff it is in
Escrow. So hopfully they will be back inprodution soon.

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[Craig Leach]

Those pics did not load as expected can they be viewed?
Craig.

[KBurket]

The zip files can be downloaded and unzipped. They appear to both have the same two photos, attached below.

[JimDix]

what hydraulic brakes do people use?

[Mark Gregush]

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2565.aspx

[DaveBarker]

Craig - Thanks for the pics. Looks like you've added a spacer plate onto the hubs to move the wheel out to the point that the spokes don't interfere with the brake calipers, correct?

[Craig Leach]

Dave,
Yes the plates came from two different suppliers, the larger one (to sopport the wheel ) only comes in 1/4" & needed 5/8" spacing. I had to
replace the studs with longer ones to accomidate plates. I used Dorman serrated press in studs.
Drove a T with Sure stops on it the other day very nice if they fit your application. I don't know if the calipers will interfear with the spokes.
We need to remember that spacing the wheels out will increase the load on the axles & bearings. This would be a great place for full floating
hubs if they will work out.
Craig.

[Dan McEachern]

In my experience, when adding spacer plates to 26-27 wire wheel hubs- the outer end of the wheel MUST be supported by the nose of the wheel hub to prevent the wheel center from cracking around the lug bolts. Without this out board support, the wheel center will eventually develop cracks. Adding an extension ring to the nose of the wheel hub will keep the wheel properly supported.

[Craig Leach]

Good point Dan,
That is a issue when using the wood wheel to wire wheel adapters also. That is also true with the A wheel adapters because the outside of the
hub is not supported by the brake drum. The larger heavier A wheel hubs seem to hold up better than T wires do with adapters.
Craig.

[DaveBarker]

Thanks guys, again, all helpful information.

Support shouldn't be a problem. The Simplex hubs that attach to the drums have a V-channel that lines-up with and provides support for a corresponding flat on the wheel hub. Photos attached.

[speedytinc]

I see a problem adding a spacer.
That spacer would go between the hub flange & brake drum. That would put the drum into the backing plate hardware by the amount spacer thickness.
There is not any room for that.

You could potentially make a wider drum that would extend well beyond & over the backing plate.

I suppose you could make longer axles to match the spacer thickness. That would keep the drum where it has to be. But there would be a bunch of extra unsupported axle shaft. Big failure point.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Dave,
That is going to pesent a issue. There was a member of our club that I worked on his cars when he was recovering from surgery. He had designed
a set of disc brakes for his Model T's ( long before I had heard of Sure-Stop ) they had a ring that welded to the small drum that was machined to
be true that the rotor bolted to. Used a small caliper but other wise was practicly the same as Sure-Stop's. If the ring was wide enough to move
the rotor inboard so the caliper didn't interfear with the spokes that would work. I would ask Sure-Stop to see if they can help you out. Maybe a
rotor could be cut down & a rotor bolted to the inside would do the trick? Nice wheels good luck with this.
Craig.

[DaveBarker]

Thanks again to everyone for your help and information. I kinda suspected these wheels would present this kind of problems trying to install “off the shelf” accessory brakes. With the spoke overlap, changing to later large drums isn’t an option either. Didn’t particularly want to tear the entire rear end apart for this project.

[kmatt2]

You may be able to use safety hubs and Nash Metro hydraulic brakes. The Metro brake backing plate isn’t that thick and drums are small enough to clear your wire wheel spokes. A plus is if you wanted to go four wheel brakes the Metro brakes work well on the front of a T speedster.

[Kevin Pharis]

Here’s a look at the Honda Goldwing brakes on the rear of my speedster. More than strong enough to do the job, especially if you continue to drive your T like a T. Can’t really tell from this angle but the caliper occupies about 1” of the drums 1.25” width.

[DaveBarker]

Thanks to both Kevins for your responses. Not sure how difficult it would be to acquire the Nash Metro brake set, but I suspect the Honda Goldwing set may be easier to find. Kevin Pharis - Did you have to modify the Goldwing brakes? Not saying that's a dealbreaker, just would like to know from someone with experience doing it.

Thanks again!

[Kevin Pharis]

The calipers are used on many different 80’s-90’s era Honda (and probably others too) motorbike models. It seems like every model had a different mounting bracket so best to look at all your options at the wrecking yard. Rotors can be challenging too, these were mid 80’s Nighthawk with mag wheels (not sure why I remember that…?!). Most rotors have a small 3”ish hole in the center, these had about a 7” center hole.

The calipers are hung on a simple 3/16” steel horseshoe bracket that bolts to the lower wishbone bolt and the brake pivot bolt. Calipers are not modified.

Don’t weld the rotor to the drum unless you can turn it true when finished. These rotors are bolted to a small ring that is welded to the drum. The drum was bolted to a hub then trued.