Commutator—to oil or not to oil

[SteveK]

I’ve been having a blast tinkering with my T. Even have it running well enough to take it around the farm while I work out the bugs. (mostly me figuring out how to safely drive it!). But I have a commutator question; everything I’ve read says oil your commutator but my New Day cover says no oiling. How should I deal with this dilemma?

Thanks in advance!

Steve

[John kuehn]

The New Day timer was and still is an accessory timer that’s one of the best timers for a T. They have been around for many many years.
The reason for no oiling on the case is because you don’t. Some do and if you want to use a very small amount of thin lubricant. What I do is to use a rag with WD40 and wipe it out clean occasionally. Other than that that’s all you do. And some use none at all and just clean it out .
Originally Ford used a roller timer and lots of people still do. It’s your choice but the New Day is very popular to say the least!
The roller timers need to be oiled fairly often but again some use different types of lube for it

My Father liked New Days and just used a thin coat of Vaseline. I use a thin light coat of STP myself in my 2 T’s with New Day timers. The Ford manuals say to maintain the timer with light oil because Ford used roller timers in the Model T from the factory.

There are all kind of accessories that came out for Model T’s over the years and different types of timers were among them.

[Oldav8tor]

I use a New Day and have never oiled it. Occasional cleaning is all. The Montana 500 racers often cut a circular block of wood to fit in the cap, mount it to a drill and scuff the contacts with very fine sandpaper.

This is what my cap and brush looked like after 5400+ miles.

[TWrenn]

Well I tried the latest and greatest version of the N.D. on my Fordor and after 250 miles I tossed it out it was so bad. I found another TW timer even after Tony Wiltshires unfortunate passing. RIP Tony. IT is by far the best running timer hands down. Needs NO oiling, I just clean it every oil change. A brush usually lasts me around 4,000+ miles. Far better than any roller timer.

This is why I've been "resurrecting" this fantastic timer piece by piece. Currently ready to have a run of 12+ of the old style rectangular brush and do have a few round brush rotors but no more brushes until I get enough interest for another run of the minimum 12.

I'm even working on getting replacement "contact rings" in the event someone needs one. They do seem to last forever.

As they say just my two cents, I understand the faithful followers of the New Day and to each his own! But I had lots of problems with a seemingly "floppy brush".

[SteveK]

Thanks all for the great comments and history. I did clean it with some electrical contact cleaner last week. I’ll go back now with some wd40 and a quick wipe and then check it occasionally to see how it looks.

Steve

[TWrenn]

I use a New Day and have never oiled it. Occasional cleaning is all. The Montana 500 racers often cut a circular block of wood to fit in the cap, mount it to a drill and scuff the contacts with very fine sandpaper.

This is what my cap and brush looked like after 5400+ miles.

NewDay.jpg

Glad yours looked like that Tim, Lord knows mine didn't make it much past 250 miles, yes, not a typo...250, not 2500! Wish I had a pic of it, I think the piece of junk is somewhere around here, if I find it I'll try to shoot one out.

The "other Tim"

[Oldav8tor]

Tim,
I bought my Timer cap and brush from Tip-Top in Spokane Valley, WA. At around 5400 miles I had to have my transmission rebuilt so on a whim I replaced the timer too....wish I'd left it on to see how far I could run it. As it is, I have 3700 miles on it's replacement.

I've had others report experiences similar to yours and am trying to get my hands on some "bad" New Days to see if I can figure out what's going on. I know there are still some bad Caps floating around that are made of soft plastic with an "S" stamped on them but that can't be the whole problem. I'm told Snyder's makes their own brushes which are probably the ones available from them and Lang's. I'm not sure if there is more than one entity making caps. Last time I bought a spare timer from Tip-Top I paid $60 before shipping.

I am open-minded and accept that others have not had my experience with New Day timers. However, from my scientific background I also believe the statement "Nothing happens without a reason." If the timers are failing there must be an explanation and I'm curious to know.

Meanwhile, it looks like you're involved in a worthy project and I wish you luck. Keep us posted on your progress.

[John kuehn]

This falls in the “ which is best” group. Transmission bands, water pumps, what kind of oil to use, and which timer is best.
There may a few others but I’m thinking these are the most talked about.

There are differences in materials , repo parts and etc.

Each one has failed in some way for some and others have good luck. The products have been around for many years and people still use them so there must be some good ones among the batch!!

Then there are people that can buy a new vehicle and run it for many years and have really good luck without many problems. The other group can buy a new vehicle and within just a few years can rag it out and it has all kind of troubles.

It sure seems to work that way,

[TRDxB2]

The "best things" depend on ones experience with them and not how they are in themselves. F.X.Brandi

[JBog]

The "best things" depend on ones experience with them and not how they are in themselves. F.X.Brandi

Yep! For example, I went through three New Day timers in two years. They all burned up on me. I switched to an Anderson style timer and I’ll never go back to a New Day.

[speedytinc]

Oldav8tor:
"I am open-minded and accept that others have not had my experience with New Day timers. However, from my scientific background I also believe the statement "Nothing happens without a reason." If the timers are failing there must be an explanation and I'm curious to know."

I am quite familiar with New day's. All I run on stock ignition T's. I have dissected the design. I have discovered the timing variations in some due to manufacturing methods. I have restored many(re-machined) & "blue printed" them. I can make em last a long time.

I see 2 issues with used units. Arcing on both sides of the contacts & worn/gouged insulator material @ the egress from the contacts.
I suspect the arching is from high amp draw set coils.
I suspect the gouging is from the brush thrusting forward pressure while running. Thats primarily a front cam bearing issue. This will make a deep depression in the original hard body. It will & does destroy the softer bodied timers quickly.

I have 4-5K miles on one timer body. It looks like new after a quick re-polishing with a 600 grit sanding disk.
How?
1) The timer was machined square to a fine finish.(more accurately than original)
2) The brush is made from a carbon generator brush. (not half worn yet)
3) The timing gear is internally front thrust-ed behind the timing gear cover.(no more than .005" in/out movement possible)
4) the brush is set/confirmed to where the holder clears the timer face & the brush isnt to high.
5) cam nut/timing cover seal. Timer runs completely dry. Never oiled.
6) coils are in proper tune.
7) I normally run on 12DC. Not sure if running on mag would make a difference, but for full disclosure.
8) optional for an arc'ed or not perfectly placed contacts. The ingress/egress points for each contact are cut with a 1/32 break line.
9) the timing cover is perfectly centered.(not as critical with a new day)

Lots of paying attention to details pays off. My goal was to get a stock ignition system to run as well as a distributor.

Similar re-machining & details will make a roller timer last a long time also. The roller cant bounce. The contact ring must be extremely smooth & centered to the cam. I have machined new replacement timers to get the contact ring smooth & bounce free. No good out of the box IMO.
I have done a few, but dont have a lot of miles on them.
The new day has been low maintenance & functions great for me.

[TXGOAT2]

Coils out of adjustment or with bad points will damage a New Day timer in very short order. A bad condenser might also do it. I've had no New Day problems with good coil adjustment. Your car will never run right with coils out of adjustment, no matter what timer you use.

[Rich P. Bingham]

60 years ago when I got my first basket case model T as a snot-nosed kid, it had a New Day in place . . . being a nascent "brass snob purist", I opted for the original Ford roller timer, but also being inexperienced and ignorant, I knew nothing of the importance of centering the timing gear cover over the end of the camshaft. The result was that the car ran badly, and quickly tore up the roller timer. I put the New Day back on, and had reliable good luck for two years and many miles. One of the benefits of the New Day is that it seems to forgive a less than perfect alignment of the timing gear cover.

Segue to 2016 when after 50 years of being T-less, a kind gentleman made me a deal I couldn't refuse, and my current Lizzie arrived on Halloween. After a few fall drives, she went into the shop for a winter of "tinkering". I ordered a new New Day from the folks in Spokane, she was fitted with a TW timer on arrival. Frankly, the TW ran so well, (reportedly with 10,000 miles on it) I turned the contact ring on the lathe to eliminate minor erosion from arc-ing, bought a new brush, and have run it since with no issues at all.

Noting the bad reports of the modern New Day timers, my personal concern (without having used it, mind) is for the brush. The fabrication of the unit I have is not as precise as originals in the forming of the brush carrier, and the brush itself, besides being rather too "loosey-goosey" in its cage to suit me, seems to be made of a bronze alloy that is much harder than the originals. A sharp edge on the contact face would seem to exacerbate a tendency to tear up the insulation material of the timer body.

[John kuehn]

The New Day brush I bought separately from Lang’s to replace my worn out original wasn’t as floppy as the one that’s pictured. It’s working OK. Maybe another supplier is making just the brush?

[Duey_C]

I have a mid-late 70's New Day that was on the '18 Runabout. The spring for the "brush", I believe was the culprit.
Very strong spring. The cover wouldn't settle in like it should. Ya know, it sat wonky and wobbled as the engine turned.

[Oldav8tor]

To add to my post. I've run my New Days 95% on magneto. Otherwise I have a 12 volt system. My coils were all rebuilt and adjusted by Ron Patterson. When the engine was reassembled I used a centering tool to make sure the cover was properly centered. I've rounded the edges of the brushes with a fine flap wheel - not because of a problem, just because it "couldn't hurt." FWIW I also bought an original New Day cap and brush at a swap meet and find both to be virtually identical to the Tip Top product.

I had a friend with a "tired" engine who experienced uneven wear on the cap contacts. When the engine was recently rebuilt it was found that the camshaft had excessive forward and backward movement in operation. Since rebuild, the new cap shows no such unusual wear at 800 miles.

If the New Day didn't work so well for me I would have replaced it long ago... We all want a timer that works and is reliable. I appreciate it when others share their experiences good and bad as it helps me make informed decisions when it comes to equipping my Model T. There is certainly not a single "best way" to do most things.