Dimensions needed for 1909 E&J 2-teir lens flare

[Rich Eagle]

T am thinking of making a couple lens flairs to make my 1909 T more correct. I have good photos but would like to know the exact dimensions of the outside diameter and the distance the flare extends from the door it attaches to. I think the parts and photos can give me the rest. If anyone can tell me the "D" and "W" dimensions, I can make them much more correct.

Or if someone has a damaged one, they could part with, that would even be better.
Thanks, in advance.
Rich

[CudaMan]

I wish I could help, Richard, but the E&J side lamps on my 1912 Flanders don't have the flares either.

[JTT3]

Rich I’m not sure 1909’s had flares for the round lenses. Could be wrong. Best John

[JTT3]

What is also neat about some but not all of the Patent Pending lamps are different style jewels some were smooth with no facets and some were faceted but different colors.

[OilyBill]

Those lamps with the red and green jewels may have come off a small steam launch or little motor yacht, hence the nautical colors.

[KimDobbins]

Rich, I don't think factory supplied 1909 E&J sidelights had flares. All the early pictures I've seen are non flare lights, but I do like flare lights better!

[CudaMan]

I looked at Gail Rodda's booklet on 1909 cars. The factory sales pictures of the Town Car and Landaulet show side lights with flares, but the other models illustrations show sidelights without flares. Of course, inaccuracies in Factory sales brochure pictures has been noted in the past. Gail's photos of the restored 1909 touring car are too fuzzy in my copy to tell whether its sidelights had flares or not.

[Rob]

Early Model N Gray & Davis, as well as other lamps did offer red/green lamp shades. Not sure when they were no longer available. Recent pic of our 1906 N, with original G&D lamps:

C1154D30-E8C3-4F9C-A736-4CF461642447.jpeg (40.51 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

FDC3F733-AA8D-4C68-A18A-ACA19AE8A389.jpeg (10.98 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

Colorized magazine photo of 1906 N at the January 1906 NY Auto Show:

Respectfully,
Rob

[Rich Eagle]

Wow! Thanks for all the information. If I don't need the flares, then I will probably not make any. It might be a fun project anyhow. I thought I saw flares on some restored '09s. I appreciate the efforts.
The Model T Ford Restoration Handbook by Clymer shows the flared ones. Rereading it does list the non-flared ones for '09-'12.
FWIW, http://veteranautolamps.com/ says they have the tooling to make them, but no price or availability if anyone else needs them.
It has been fun researching, and I was ready to make something. I'll direct my energies to something else.
This forum is such a great asset and you guys are always helping me out.
Thanks again.
Rich
P. S. Rob, I love those Gray and Davis lamps. My Buick has some nice reproduction ones made in the 60's. Mike Yeakel found and restored a pair of sidelights for it in trade for a painting and a REO chassis. They are wonderful with the red and green lamp shades to the lenses.

[1915ford]

This is a classic example of times when catalog pictures don't seem to match what actually was used in production. After studying period pictures of actual cars for years I can find not one example of flare fronts being used on Model Ts. The earlier 1909s more commonly had the three tier/large body E and Js without the flares. Period pictures of Model S cars can be found with two tier flare fronts but thats it. Enjoy.