Model T firewall to frame bracket help.

[skyhunter]

Is the firewall to frame brackets for the wooden firewalls a left and a right?

The reason I ask is the pair that were on this speedster are exactly the same and the person who built it put one flat side to engine and the other flat side to coil on the firewall which seems to put the firewall at a bit of an angle.

I would think they should be mirroring images of each other and on the same side of the firewall. Whichever is the correct side they should be on.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Yes, the correct firewall brackets have a right and a left, All years and wood or steel firewalls, 1909 through 1927. If I recall correctly, all of them correctly mount on the engine side of the firewall (although I could be wrong about the 1926/'27?). Other details bolted to the top of the frame or the side of the frame, and whether the offset is inward or outward does vary a little by different years.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Other details of yours, whether bolted onto the top of the frame rail or the side of the frame rail, year model of car and/or chassis. "Wood" firewall helps, however there was a big change in the brackets about 1916 when Ford switched to bolting the bracket onto the side of the frame rather than the top of the frame (made servicing the car or removing the engine much easier).
Photos of the car, hood, and firewall would also help.


By the way? Is that avatar photo Jimmy Cagney? (Or a close lookalike?)

[skyhunter]

Bolted on the top of the frame.

Ugh. It just gets worse. So, seems that the brackets are not of the same time frame, side by side the bases are different. Also, the person who put these brackets on drilled holes for them, and not very well. They are at least 3/16" off from each other so the firewall has a noticeable unsquared cant to it.

But it has to be a mid 16 and up because it has side holes for that type of bracket, so I think I need to get the 17 to 23 style and move on.

[skyhunter]

The joys of playing "what the heck was he thinking"?

[Mark Gregush]

Later frames such as my 1921, still had the holes for the top mounted firewall brackets and forged running board irons along with the holes for the side mount brackets and U channel running board supports.
Just went out and looked at my June (I think) 1925, no extra holes.
So sometime between mid 1921 and 1925 the extra holes were dropped.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Mark G, I don't know if it means much, but I rarely see the holes for the top mounted firewall brackets on frames unless the frame is a bit earlier than that. Most of the ones that I have seen with the top mounted firewall bracket holes also do not have the factory battery box holes. One odd one I had, and used on a late brass model T actually did have the battery box holes in it. However, they were not located in the correct factory positions. In addition, the wear marks in and around bolt holes clearly showed that it had originally used the top mounted firewall brackets and not the side mounted brackets. The presumption was that the battery box holes were drilled in later to add a battery to an earlier car. It is known that for a time in the mid 1910s that frames did have the holes for both style firewall brackets so that either style could be used while the design was finally worked out. How long both sets of holes showed up at this point is pretty much anybody's guess.
In the mid through late 1910s, Ford was having frames made by a few different companies. I would be surprised if a couple of them didn't continue punching the holes for both styles for longer than other companies.
I did have one other frame with the later 1920s channel running board brackets that did have the holes for the top of the frame firewall brackets. But it had apparently been used on a "restored" car a few decades past, painted a bright color. I figured it had been a speedster and the top of frame brackets added later. I might still have it? Maybe I should go out and look more closely?

[Dan Hatch]

This book will have answers to most of your questions. Every T guy needs one.

IMG_0122.jpeg (99.8 KiB) Viewed 1631 times

[skyhunter]

Is that the book that lists everything like by year. I think I may have it. Almost all the pages one looks up states "same as 1915" then when you go to 1915 it states, "same as 1914" and so on. If it is it's in a box in a storage container with other stuff that distracts me.

This vehicle has a 1916 engine and title but a later frame. The vehicle is a hodge podge of "better ideas" that I am unfixing.

The wood firewall now is a plywood one from the Rootlieb speedster kit with the angled edges. There is no sheetmetal yet.

[TRDxB2]

A lot of the responses reference frame differences. Have you identified the year of your frame?

[skyhunter]

Frank. I have seen that. But the rear crossmember was trimmed and there are many holes in many places on the frame so without a diagram of frames marking what holes are what and where they are located it's a daunting task. Some holes are square, and some are round. Little was attached to the frame so I would not know what was attached where.

[TRDxB2]

Frank. I have seen that. But the rear crossmember was trimmed and there are many holes in many places on the frame so without a diagram of frames marking what holes are what and where they are located it's a daunting task. Some holes are square, and some are round. Little was attached to the frame so I would not know what was attached where.

Some more info. Square holes are not usually a DIY

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