Banned by every tire place in town

[colonelpowers]

I wonder if anyone else has had so much trouble getting new tubes installed. My 22 Center Door had a flat about a month ago and the spare was flat as well so I ordered 2 tubes and flaps to fix the problem. I have somehow injured my shoulder earlier and couldn't manhandle the 30 x 3 1/2 clinchers off so I decided to go to the Firestone dealer in town. Marion Tire has operated since the 60s and does all the industrial and farm tires in the area so I thought that they were well qualified. It took them over a week to do and when I picked them up I was told to , " never bring that s**t here again. " He also in the conversation said, "I ought to kill you for bringing them here". Well I paid him and took the tires home and installed them on the car. I made it 2 miles before I had a flat on the new tube. I wasn't brave enough to go back to the first place so I went to the Goodyear dealer. It has been there forever, in fact Mr. Goodman who still runs it started there in 1949 ( he is in his mid 90s). It has been 2weeks now and still no tires. Today when I checked in I was told that they will try to finish these but to never bring them back.

I know that clinchers are bad to mount but are they really that bad. I would have thought that a well equipped shop would have had no trouble installing new tubes and flaps.

[George House]

Is there an antique auto restorer for the public somewhere near you ? I have a bad right hand when you need 3 hands to change tubes so I drive a 200 mile round trip for Ross Lilleker to do this task. I’ll bet I paid less than you did to someone else that really didn’t know what he was doing

[Rich P. Bingham]

That’s unfortunate. Perhaps the state of “service” now in many establishments ? An odd project takes them too far out of their way if they’re extremely busy. I’d think a shop that does ag service would be more flexible about “odd” tires.

Perhaps you can keep looking for a tire outfit that is sympathetic ? Our local mom ‘n’ pop tire dealer was enthusiastic to “adopt” my T when I found it impossible to remove the old rock-hard, baked on “T-drivers”. I just couldn’t do it myself. They were prompt and reasonable, and I’m mighty thankful to them.

[John Codman]

I will be the Devil's advocate here. The top tier of auto and light truck mechanics, or if you prefer, technicians, were born in the mid-50's or even later. They do not know any more about working with old tires with antique wheels and felloes then you do. Perhaps less. Their future volume of pre-1930 wheel and tire work will be in the same room as none. When I worked in the trade decades ago, we called these "loss leaders". If you were a regular customer of either repair facility, I could see them going a bit out of their way to accommodate you. But they can mount and balance four modern tires with air and electric tools and machines in the time that they could mount your one. For our old wheels, it's all manual labor, and if they charged you their regular shop rate, you would have a fit.
I might have been nicer about it then these shops were, but I would tell you that any future antique tire work would be at the normal shop rate. As to the flat after the mounting, these folk don't do 1% of their tire work involving tubes. I should also mention that the folks working on your antique wheels are not ASE Master Technicians. This is the type of work done by relatively inexperienced workers. The shop is in business to earn money; there is none in mounting what they would consider oddball tires.

[Craig Leach]

My BIL has found the same issue with clinchers the one place he found will not do them anymore. If you think about it they charge $10- $20 to
dismount & mount a tire if you didn't buy it from them & it only takes about 5 minutes. ( tubeless )That's $120-$240 an hour so when they
struggle with a tire for an hour for the same price they are loosing money in a big way! 21" split rims are against company policy as are any
split rim @ almost all tire stores. The machine to change motorcycle tires will tear the paint up on your wire wheels. I have even been told by
one store that they will sell me trailer tires & mount & balance them but only if I bring in the tires & wheels, they will not do them on the
trailer. In almost every instance the reason is the universal answer LIABILITY. I have not tried the local Llantera but they think all Gringos are
rich & charge accordingly. I just spent $100 for 2 used 16" tires because the brand name tire stores NO longer sell used tires for( LIABILITY )
reasons.
Craig.

[signsup]

I purchased a Coats tire machine to do my own steel wheel mounts and dismounts and tube replacements on my military vehicles for this reason. I know the clinchers are hand jobs and it's the way of the future, a dieing breed. Radiator, gas tank, generators, starters, etc. are all going the same way. When the current owners retire, it is just replace plastic parts.
Perhaps a local car club can provide some assistance. I make my tire machine available to any local club member who wants to come over and use it or I will work with them.

[TWrenn]

Yeh we're very fortunate to have a tire dealer with a very personable, polite young man that LOVES fighting with clinchers! I just had him mount one for me the other day. I barely got home and had supper but what he had it done. I do take the old tires off...seems I can handle that but not installing. He even bought a few tire irons just for these jobs he likes it so much. Thank God for him!

[Oldav8tor]

We have a local tire shop that is happy to install tires on my clincher rims. Indeed, they seem to get a kick out of it. When I first approached them about doing the tires I showed up in my T and took the owner and his "main man" for a ride. They have since done some tires for others as well.

[KBurket]

I recently removed very old dry tires and had to use motorcycle tire irons from HF. It was a tough job that took me too long but would’ve been impossible without the long irons.

I debated taking my rims and new (2007) tires to a local shop but decided to give it a shot. (Tire shops around me require appointments to see them. Like a dentist.).
The first two tires went on okay using the short irons. But that work wore me out and I had to use the long irons for the last two.

[Kerry]

It seems you set the fitter with a challenge on wrestling with fitting flaps, I bet his attitude would be a little different if just fitting tire and tube the Ford way, no flaps.

[Erik Johnson]

It is substantially easier to dismount and mount a clincher tire with the wheel (or demountable rim) on the car.

There's more clearance under the front fenders than the rear fenders. Therefore, if you have demountable rims, you have the added advantage being able to put the rim in question on the front wheel when you need to dismount or mount a tire on that rim.

If you have never done the above before, click on this link and scroll down to where Royce Peterson posted a "how-to."

https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/1 ... 1325091009

[John kuehn]

You have to remember that the newer generation of auto mechanics, radiator shops, tire shops and etc. don’t understand older engines, antique cars and repairing them for the most part. There are some who have some limited experience and those shops are not easy to find.
If your car doesn’t have a computer or digital dash gauges your out of luck.

[Gracie'sDad]

Even if you arent nursing sore appendages, it's a very tough job. I've tried several techniques but the one that worked the best is the zip tie method. You can look it up on Youtube. You'll need at least 2 long tire irons, 1 or 2 large wood or C clamps, about 12 long 1/4" x 12-15" zip ties, a sunny day to make the tire pliable and PATIENCE. When you get frustrated (and you will)take a break. I wish you the best of luck.

[Colin Mavins]

My car is a 1912 with 30 by 31/2 tires I had never changed a tire on this car so in 2013 it got a new set of tires . The first tire took 1 hour the second took 10 minites I leave the wheel on the car I let the air out and let the car down slowly this loosens the top ,I use dish soap this makes every thing slide, this year I rotated the tires in 1 and a quarter hours, no need for tire irons. The car has been in my family since 1960 never a flat knock on wood I will admit the car has old tubes most likely 1949 when the set I took off where new . We don't have flaps. In 2013 we did install metal stems. Because of winter The most miles in a year would be about 1000 and that's a lot of driving here in Winnipeg. I know some of you are doing 5000 plus Cheers Colin

[bobt]

MY way--- No flaps, Rim strips.Two Long CHROME Harbor Freight tire irons ($8 ea). Baby powder dusting and GoJo for a lubricant. wheels on the vehicle. Warm weather and sunlight helps. I do not want to open the flaps controversy. This method works for me a 75 yr. old senior. Colonial Heights, Va.

[Loftfield]

Yup, my local tire place that does the farm equipment and truck tires could not get the Blockley tires on the rims. They lost $$$$$ just trying. it finally developed that the trouble was flaps, which are really not needed on Blockley's with Blockley tubes. The job got done at home, sans flaps, the secret was building a plywood platform to hold the wheels with the outer bearing down in a hole, but more importantly inviting fellow T enthusiasts to help, so the extra hands were there when needed. Some coffee, doughnuts, or a light lunch afterwards helps retain the needed extra hands. I should note that the extra hands help offset the 70+ years this body has accumulated, just not as spry as a few decades ago. Having built the wheel holder, my shop has now become the go-to place for clincher rim, split rim, and other weird tire replacement, camaraderie helps keep the group together.

[Aussie16]

I cant understand what the big deal is about changing clincher tyres. I have been doing since I was kid. Just a necessary part of owning and antique car and learning g how do deal with one on the many problems they present. Lots of great advice of how to do the job out there these days. The most recent tyres tyres fitted were a set of Blockleys and they were easy. I dont expect any flats in the near future with good rims, correct pressures and new tyres.

[Steve Jelf]

Struggle with installing clinchers? Been there, done that. Removing old, hard tires? That too.

I agree about irons. Changing tires with original Ford irons is the job from Hell. The cheap HF two-footers greatly reduce the trouble. Ask Mr. Archimedes.

Yes, changing tires is easier with the wheel on the car. With the stem at the bottom, you can let the wheel down just enough to keep the tire in place, with the stem in its hole.

Flaps? If I ever used them I don't remember it. Ford didn't use them, and neither do I. With good enough rims, flaps are superfluous.

Install both beads together, not one and then the other.

Don't just buy "tubes". Know your brands. By all reports Blockleys are best. I haven't tried them because it saves money to buy rubber-stem tubes (Blockley doesn't sell them), cut off the stems, and install my own metal stems gathered on the cheap at swap meets. For my uses, Hartford tubes have proved quite adequate. After a bad experience with Custom Classic tubes, I avoid them.

I think split-ring TT rear wheels were the only ones I've taken to a shop to have tires installed. I don't think I've ever had a shop install clinchers for me. Mother please, I'd rather do it myself!

After having a flat in Michigan, I stopped in South Bend IN to have the tube patched. At the chain tire shop a kid told me, "Nobody does tubes anymore." I found a real tire shop where they deal with trucks and farm equipment, and they patched my tube for the perfect price.

"Practice makes perfect." When I got seriously into the Model T scene in 2008, clinchers were new to me and changing them was a struggle. Practice hasn't yet made me perfect, but after years of experience, much of it while on the road, I find that tires are much less daunting than they used to be.

[RajoRacer]

My old knees don't appreciate the concrete anymore and I do most of the clincher tire mounting for the local clubs so I finally purchased a manual motorcycle tire mounting machine - had some special "spools" made to hold the rim tight and sure made my job alot easier !

[Original Smith]

I've been mounting clinchers all of my adult life. I don't like it, but it has to be done. The only tire irons to use are the TT tire irons that Ford made.
I haven't used Hartford tubes yet, but am willing to try. Are they available from Langs? Tubes were still being made in the U.S. ten years ago. Who made them? They had no brand name on the tubes. Seems to me if Coker or Lucas knew who they are, they could be put into production again.
The problem as I see it, is none of the major tire companies are willing to help us average guys that own T's. The Model A guys have done all the research for their cars, and even got permission from Schrader to reproduce the correct valve stems for Model A's. The first Model A's used an 888, which works perfectly for a Model T. I wonder if they got those made?
Keep in mind, the tire valves were never vulcanized to the tubes, and that is the problem today. If Coker and the rest of them offer a tube with just a hole in the tube, and preferably reinforced, they would be doing us all a big favor. And by the way, the bridge washers are not made correctly either!

[Steve Jelf]

I don't know of any 30 x 3 or 30 x 3½ tubes still made in the USA. The ones I do know: Hartford, China; Custom Classic, India; Blockley, Vietnam; Others, Vietnam. I think there may still be some made in Europe. Why do I mention Vietnam twice? Because the country of origin doesn't matter. What matters is the quality demanded by the importers. The new Blockley tyres have been well received not because of where they're made (I assume a lot of people think it's Britain), but because they have a reputation for being better than all the other clincher tires made in Vietnam (Wards, Firestone, whatever) because that's what the importer (Blockley) demands. I guess Blockleys and Riversides costing practically the same price shows that better quality doesn't have to be expensive.

Larry is right. Old bridge washers are better than new ones.

[nigel_hugo]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Michelin Style tire leavers, 3 of those and a big rubber mallet, a couple of long straight leavers, leave the wheel on the car. Do it on a hot day. Michelin is the way to go. Nigel Hugo

[BarrettR]

They're not that bad if you know what you are doing!
Most kids working in tire shops don't know what they are doing, most have never seen a clincher tire let alone have ever worked on one, find some help in the mtfca.

[Allan]

All my T's have demountable rims, so i do all my tyre changing off the car on a waist high table. This is much more comfortable than working with the tryes on the car.

The Blockley tyres are a gem to fit. They are soft and pliable and could almost be fitted with Henry's stubby little original levers. With the 15" levers I have, they are a cinch. How much effort you make depends a lot on your fitting technique, and then the tyres you are working with.

There are three things I consider "must haves" when fitting clincher tyres.
First, use a rim liner rather than a flap. You don't need any complications to cause more grief.
Second, use a tyre fitting lubricant like the pros use.
Third, have a bar clamp or two to help hold things in place at the start.

Then, inflate the tube within the tyre just enough to hold its shape. Use the bar clamps to hold BOTH beads and the valve stem in place on the rim. Lever BOTH beads on at the same time. Right at the end, one bead may go on first. Just be careful levering the second side on, or belt it with a rubber mallet.
Job done! Inflate and check how the tyre is seated in the rim. Deflate to allow the tube to relax and reinflate to pressure.

Re-fitting older tyres which have just come off for a repair should also be almost as easy.
Fitting older tyres which have been off rims for some years is a whole different matter.

I was fortunate to find a set of five new, well stored original Olympic tyres some time back. With no wire in the beads, they had shrunk almost 3" in circumference. My local tyre dealer with whom we entrust all our farm tyre fitting had a T clincher rim in their shop , fitted with one such tyre, but with only one bead stretched over the rim. They could find no way to shift it enough to get a tube in, and had given up. They did set me up with a series of four different sized 14" rims and tyres of different overall diameters. Over the smallest of these, I levered one clincher tyre and then inflated it to stretch the tyre. A week later that one went an the next larger size, and another took its place. After four weeks the trye coming of the largest of the 14" rims was still too small. It was fitted over a 23" Chev split rim. With a split rim tool, I jacked it apart until there was a bit over a one inch gap between the rim ends, and left it for another week. That straw broke the camel's back! The tyre was then fitted with the tools outlined above. After 5 weeks I had a beautiful set of five spare rims and tyres for my fleet. I got their one side tyre off their rim. The difference between the one bead they had managed to stretch and the other was remarkable. I put their tyre through the same process and took it back to them when fitted. They were amazed, but determined never to volunteer to take on the job again. That is understandable considering the trouble i took to make it work. However, until we had Blockley's, no currently available was anywhere near as good as my old Olympics.

Allan from down under.

[DHort]

I just had 2 Blockley tires installed. I had to pay extra because they were so hard to mount, and we are talking about a guy with a Weaver machine. One thing that came up was the flaps. One flap was brand new and still had the slippery coating. The other one was old and was no longer slippery. Of course the slippery flap aided with the install of the tube and took less time. They were not Blockley tubes. Just my 2 cents.

[Allan]

Dave, in my experience with Blockley tyres, I would say you have been conned. They are the easiest tyre to fit that I have ever had the pleasure to work with. The use of any machine to mount them may even have hindered the process.

Allan from down under.

[Steve Jelf]

I agree with Allan. I had no trouble putting them on my 1915. Of course Ford didn't use flaps, and neither do I. Apparently they were so easy I didn't take any pictures.

[Luxford]

I can't be the only one who only gets flat tires out on the road. Changing or putting new tires on at home is easy as one has all ones gear to do the job, especially compressed air. On the road it's different often a bad place where you have to stop when the tire blows, if your lucky a safe area to do the tire repair or tube change and then you probably have to use a hand pump to get the 60 psi pressure.
Add to that maybe a really hot day in the summer and you really know you are working, great when you are nearly 80 years old.

Having the knowledge and practice is a must, obviously no young ones today have any idea, those that do have had contact with an old person.
All the advice above will help if you are inexperienced and you need the right gear. A couple of more helpful hints. I always use an old rim to mount the tire without a tube first, especially if its not summer or the temperature is cold. This takes out lots of the tightness and makes mounting the tire a lot easier ( and gives you some practice especially if you are new at it) put the tube in the tire and a flap (if you want to) pump the tube up and fill it out.
On the road if its a non demountable as suggested valve at the bottom method, on the side of the road a demountable on the ground placed on something so dirt, rocks etc don't get a chance to get in between the tire and rim valve in first both front and back beads on at once, Good long levers to pull the tire towards the other side of the rim and a rubber mallet to help get the tire on. Make sure you can do this with what you carry with you in the car, a table at home won't be of any use on the highway and that's where you will get a flat not in the garage. Make sure you have a good pump as you will not get too far if you don't get all or close to the full pressure.

[Wingnut]

So... what you fellas are saying is these so called tire outlets, for the most part, won't deal with clinchers or even split rims or split rings. I cut my proverbial teeth on these types the worst of which is are manure tires at least 10 ply corded 5 inch wide rim NO DROP CENTER. What a pip on a hot summers day. As far as I can tell we, as a society, have gotten so lazy there may be no way out. Yes I've beat myself up on tires of one sort or another, but NEVER have I thrown in the towel or turned away anyone needing help with them. Keep yer stick on the ice, I'm pullin' for ya.

[babychadwick]

People these days Hava a hard time "changing a tire" when in fact they are doing nothing of the sort. Instead they are changing a wheel. Even roadside assistance would be lost if asked to actually change a tire.