driving questions

[LittleTimmy52]

I just want some information on better driving habits for the T. I know the brakes are terrible, I know a controlled stop is best for the pedals. The spark lever is a big question of mine, it has a bunch of notches but near the middle there's a big notch, it goes past the notch, but unlike behind the notch it doesn't stay, is that normal? also once started I advance it to this notch and basically don't touch it, am I supposed to move it during driving? I mean it sounds fine whilst driving, but I never go more than under 10 min low speeds, so I don't know if say temperature or something gets impacted much. Thanks

[bdtutton]

There are a lot of good references that were written back in the day to help people learn how to drive a Model T. I read a few of them and it helped me learn to drive my Model T the way Henry wanted it to be driven. Maybe someone on the forum can post a link to some original materials or let you know where to purchase some of those original instructions...

[Steve Jelf]

A large notch halfway down the spark quadrant is not normal. A good search of the common references should bring up a picture of the stock quadrant. The lever should stay wherever you put it, until you move ite again. If it drifts, you have something to fix. I suppose somebody will want to post the common diagram showing lever positions. Be aware that it doesn't apply to driving on MAG, which most of us do most of the time.

The notorious Model T brakes are not as bad as many people claim. Granted, they're not as good as those on modern cars, but here in the middle of North America I've always found them adequate at Model T speeds.

Driving is best done with a minimum use of the low pedal. In normal driving, step down on it firmly, only long enough to get the car moving.

Some YouTube videos will lead you astray, but a search of Mitch Taylor's channel should find some good ones that demonstrate how to proceed.

[jab35]

I would add Mike Bender's excellent videos to the must watch list. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz9Cs_ ... uRQ/videos

[George House]

ALWAYS ensure the spark lever is at the top of the quadrant when starting by hand or starter motor. Then I just throw it down 2 1/2” - 3” and do all my adjusting by gas lever; except at a stop sign. Then retard the spark. Steve said something smart about the low pedal. Clamp it tightly around the low drum as you accelerate then temporarily retard gas as you shift into high. Also, low pedal is a better choice than brake pedal when descending a hill.

[Norman Kling]

The stock T runs best on magneto. Depending on the timer, and the initial setting of the retard by bending the rod between the steering column and the timer, it will have at least 3 points where the magneto will advance. I call them nodes. Try to run with the spark lever at the center of the node. For normal driving on nearly level ground you will use the node farthest down on the quadrant. It tends to be self advancing when on magneto because your voltage increases on the sine wave and will produce the spark earlier on the wave as the speed of the engine increases. I just leave it alone after I set it. However, if you have a hill to climb and the engine begins to slow down without lugging the engine, you will retard one node., Be sure to advance it again after you reach the top of the hill. If you have a distributor they are usually self advancing with the speed of the engine.
Norm

[TXGOAT2]

It would be very valuable to have an experienced Model T owner on hand to demonstrate how to drive your car and how to use the controls. From here, it sounds like your spark control needs some adjustment to work properly, and the car may need other adjustments to perform and respond to the driver as it should. It's not difficult to drive T the right way, but information and some hands-on practice is always very helpful. Reading is good,but if your car needs adjustment to work properly, reading may be confusing. With any Model T, you need to pay attention to what the car is doing and make adjustments to the timing as needed. These cars also need frequent checks and minor maintenance, like oiling the timer, oiling the suspension, checking the engine oil, and greasing the rear wheel bearings and universal joint. None of this is difficult or complex, but it is important. It's very important to learn the correct procedure for starting the engine.

[Dennis Prince]

All of my T's drive just a little bit different, you need to drive yours and play with it to find your secret hand shake for your car. Always have it fully retarded ( all the way up) to start and when coasting down hill if you retard it that will help a little to hold you back.

[RecklessKelly]

Usually closing the throttle slows my car right down. I use low for more of a brake until the last moment and then the brake pedal. The brake seems adequate for the speed that the car is capable of or as fast as I drive it, 35mph. It has kevlar bands. At 35 on a flat run, the throttle is about 1/3 down.
After starting with spark up I set the spark lever about at the 8:00 position and leave it there. Shifting into high after the engine is warmed up, I keep the throttle open and just blip the spark lever up as a cutout as I let the pedal out and makes a quick smooth shift. Just started experimenting with that technique. Every car is different.

[speedytinc]

As previously suggested Get & read the T1 service manual & an OWNERS manual.
The owners manual will provide enough information to teach you to drive.
That's a good first step, then ask the forum for some of the "tricks" in owning & operating that we have learned & aren't necessarily in the books.
Your spark quadrant, as you describe, appears out of the norm. Learn how to post a picture.
Welcome to the AFFLICTION.

[TRDxB2]

1917 owner manual for down load https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm
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1917owners manual.pdf

(3.41 MiB) Downloaded 94 times

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[John Codman]

There was an excellent post a while back (I think by Ron Patterson) about how to set the spark for starting. He suggested two or three notches of advance for starting. He pointed out that with the spark lever all the way up, the spark is wayy retarded and you are giving up a significant amount of the power stroke before the plug fires. At two or three notches of "advance" the spark is still retarded a bit, but the power stroke will be stronger. I always start my T that way and it has never kicked back. Once the engine starts, I move the spark lever to wherever it needs to be for maximum RPM. I then fool with the mixture until the engine runs the smoothest (after warmup) and reset the spark for maximum rpm. The I foggedabout it until the next time I start the car. Of course all settings are on Mag. I switch to Mag immediately after the T starts.

[Steve Jelf]

John, was the advice for starting on MAG, BAT, or both?

[LittleTimmy52]

https://jmp.sh/s/ir06Grbdmiy1DaDIjL31
Here is my spark lever, somebody tell me if that's normal or if it needs to be changed. it's a 17 I don't know if that means anything because I know some things have changed between the years I'm not sure if this is one of them. Typically I have it all the way up for starting and then as it warms up I advance it until that big notch and basically leave it there, I do as of recent play with the advance while driving with slight engine improvement (well by ear). Is leaving it advanced most of the time fine?

[LittleTimmy52]

I know precisely why now it only goes to this big notch before springing back the part that physically moves is hitting the metal sheet now I don't know if it's supposed to be like that or not but if somebody wants to look at the video and look at this attached image and tell me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks

As you can see the oil spot below is where it hits that's why it springs right back up and it doesn't go very far

[DanTreace]

Your hand lever is a mechanical linkage to the timer rod from the tiny lever on end of the hand lever to the timer case.

The timer rod sets the range of travel and of course the range of retard and advance. Yours appears to be unable to provide full moment. Issues could be poorly bent timer rod or the rod impinging on radiator hose or something on its travel to the timer case.

[John kuehn]

Open the hood and lean over a bit so you can see if the timer advance rod is moving freely. If it’s hanging up somewhere you should be able to see it as you lean over, move the spark lever and watch it closely.
If it looks like it’s hitting or dragging on something remove the rod from the top of the timer case arm. It should come out easy.
If not and it seems like it’s in a bind when you take it out that’s probably your issue and the rod needs reshaping so it doesn’t drag or hit something.

[John Codman]

John, was the advice for starting on MAG, BAT, or both?

To be honest, I don't remember - maybe Ron will jump in here. I use that procedure starting on Battery; I have never attempted to start the T on Mag. There is no particular reason for that, I'm just a creature of habit. I'll have to try a Magneto start the next time I take the T out.

[LittleTimmy52]

Open the hood and lean over a bit so you can see if the timer advance rod is moving freely. If it’s hanging up somewhere you should be able to see it as you lean over, move the spark lever and watch it closely.
If it looks like it’s hitting or dragging on something remove the rod from the top of the timer case arm. It should come out easy.
If not and it seems like it’s in a bind when you take it out that’s probably your issue and the rod needs reshaping so it doesn’t drag or hit something.

As per my poorly taken photo it is indeed hitting something which is that metal shielding or whatever it is between the frame and the engine it looks to me that either the shielding is wrong or the whole steering column and everything is shifted as the whole column is to one side of this shape cut out of it and as you can see it is hitting this metal shield, so I don't know what to do from there. It moves fine really until the little linkage looking thing hits the metal shielding.

[RecklessKelly]

The shield is the splash pan and its probably right. The timing rod on my car has alot of bends in it to clear everything in its way. It was done right, unlike my throttle rod that was hanging up inside the block.
If you have to bend a fresh rod or alter an existing one, I would first detatch the rod on the timer end and move the timer so that no. 1 cylinder sparks at top dead center when the piston reaches top dead center on the compression stroke. You can tell by disconnecting all four plug wires, pulling no. 1 spark plug and slowly cranking it over and looking for when both valves are closed and the piston approaches the top of its travel. At that moment turn the timer until the plug sparks with the ignition on. Set the spark lever all of the way up. Now the rod should fit between both the timer and the steering lever holes. Bend a lighter gage wire such as a piece of rebar wrapping wire around the obstacles and use it as a baseline for bending the real rod.

[Allan]

"I know the brakes are terrible."

As Steve said, They are adequate for the job if a T is driven within its limitations. It takes a while to develop driving habits which are in sync with these limitations. If the way you drive requires heavy braking, then you need to modify the way you drive, not the brakes.
In 61 years of T driving, much of that on surface roads in city traffic, I have never found my standard T transmission brakes not up to the task. This included one panic stop that resulted in a split pinion gear.

Allan from down under

[jiminbartow]

Here is an old Model T era chart, that, for the most part, gives a general understanding of the lever settings for driving the Model T. Some say it is not accurate, but it has helped me.

[DanTreace]

I know precisely why now it only goes to this big notch before springing back the part that physically moves is hitting the metal sheet now I don't know if it's supposed to be like that or not.

Here is the comparison of factory placement of the swivel end timer rod used to 1920 or so.

The rod on your T is mounted incorrect, so the swivel is causing interference in the travel or the rod. Plus it seems that rod is way forward under the hose, should be more in a line to the timer case with the rod being under the metal return coolant pipe.

Image.jpeg (78.82 KiB) Viewed 6322 times

[Steve Jelf]

Some say it is not accurate, but it has helped me.

The chart is from Murray Fahnestock's book. I believe it's for driving on BAT, and doesn't apply to MAG. It shows too many timing positions for MAG driving.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Lucas,
Levers that will not stay in place can be cured with a lever brake. Easy to make, I use a hard wood, drill the steering shaft hole larger than the
shaft & the lever hole smaller than the rods. Drill the bolt holes & then cut in half with a band or hack saw. I like the wing nuts because you
don't need a wrench to make quick adjustments. As fare as timing adjustments go slow engine speed less timing, fast engine speed more timing.
The same with fuel more load more fuel, less load less fuel.

Craig.