1912 Rands Windshield Frame Tag

[Jones in Aiken SC]

On a 1912 Rands windshield frame, where is the Rands tag located? I always assumed it was on the top inside but then saw this picture of a nicely restored 1912 where the tag is on the bottom on the outside. What is correct?

[Russ T Fender]

It’s down by the dash on my late slab side ‘12.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Val, is that on the inner side or outer side of the frame?

[Russ T Fender]

Outside so it’s visible from the front of the car.

[Russ T Fender]

I should mention that it was that way when I acquired the car so I can’t swear that it is correct. For what it’s worth the windshields on my other early cars all have the manufacturer’s tags there too so I’m assuming that was standard practice in the industry.

[Rod]

Outside bottom middle

[pete eastwood]

Rod, this windshield is on backwards.
The hinges should be oriented so the windshield fold to the rear.

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[Wayne Sheldon]

I have never had a model T windshield that early. I have a couple 1915 windshields, and some pieces of a 1914. But I have looked at quite a few earlier windshields and pieces at swap meets and on other people's cars. I won't claim to be an expert on them, however, it appears to me that they can be taken apart and then assembled in a bunch of wrong ways. I can't count the number of 1915s and later windshields I have seen assembled very incorrectly! I expect the same is likely true for earlier brass era Ts.
If one has all the correct pieces for a 1915 windshield? Except that the two pane frames can each face either way, there are a dozen ways to assemble it wrong and only ONE way that it is right
My guess would be that the earlier brass era windshields are about the same, and likely worse with so many variations, makers, size differences within individual makers.
Given how many model Ts were shipped in partially knocked down form, with final assembly by the dealer's helpers? I would expect that the lower frame, with its name tag on it, was likely put on both directions a lot more often than we think they were.


How many different windshields were actually used in 1912? And how does one tell them apart? Rands I know a little about, but what about others? Could we look through a couple hundred era photos of 1912 Ts and get a consensus of what was more or less correct?

[George House]

Gregory !.. Keep that beautiful ‘12’s brass above flood waters !

[Rod]

Is this better?

[Rod]

[RGould1910]

Hi Wayne. You mentioned gathering information on other windshields. I have an unrestored Mezger Automatic windshield used on early Ts. It came to me without the name tag but there are two tiny holes on the outside of the lower frame where the tag was mounted. The two halves cannot be switched because the panels are different heights and the hinge/rod brackets are fixed in position and the hinge arms must point toward the front. These featues unequivically proove the position of the tag is on the outside of the lower panel.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Interesting. Thank you Richard!

I spent a bit of time last night zipping through about a hundred era photos of 1912s. Basically, as I expected, more than half of them were not at a distance or good enough angle to clearly show a nameplate on the front and center of the windshield frame. None of them clearly showed a nameplate, and only a handful looked like there may have been a nameplate in that area. So I am more puzzled now than before. I may need to spend more time zooming in to a bunch of the photos?

[Jones in Aiken SC]

I have an original complete Rands windshield frame that does not appear to ever have been taken apart. The Rands tag is on the top, on the inside. I also have other parts of frames, some with the tag, that would read upside down if on the bottom. So I know what I am going to do for my car. But I also understand those early frames could have a lot of variability so I am not picking on anyone for "being incorrect."

To some this might seem like an anal detail, but hey, when you are restoring an early brass car you think about these things.

[Tbird]

This is one that I had a few years ago, that I sold on the forum. It was an original with the lower pane being larger than the top half. It had an original Rands tag on it located on the top on in the inside...

I don't know who the caretaker is of Phil Mino's unrestored 11 but that would be a great source to check.
There use to be a website of his car, but no longer.

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IMG_9099.JPG (127.77 KiB) Viewed 7527 times

[Erik Johnson]

To elaborate on what Mike Bird posted above:

I discussed this thread with my 92 year old father - he has been in the antique car hobby since 1948.

He said that he has looked at a number of original/unrestored Rands windshields over the years and he knows for sure that for the ones that did not have the 50/50 halves, the tag was always on the top windshield frame, facing rearward. He also said that, therefore, the tag on 50/50-split windshields should also be on the top windshield frame, facing rearward.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Erik J, That would seem to match with what I did see while looking through a couple hundred era photos of 1912 model Ts. I spent about an hour one evening going through a lot of pictures because of this thread. What I saw? Was basically nothing. Basically all the photos were of the front of the car, showing the front of the windshield. Had the name plates been on the front of the windshields, I would expect to have been sure about at least a dozen of them. Instead, I saw a grand total of three pictures that "might" have had "something" on the forward lower frame, and none of those three actually looked like a name plate, more likely a smudge of dirt.

Thank you for speaking with your father, and reporting back. I hope things are well with you and your family.

[FlyingA]

Im the caretaker of Phil Mino's 1911. I could check if you still need this information.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

I''d sure be interested in where that tag appears on that lovely original car!

[FlyingA]

just looking through the old photos of the car here are two. I'll have to go look in person as well. I don't see it.

[FlyingA]

sidenote: YES....... I have the original coil box. Phil changed that to get it to run in 1992. I need to change it back. The probability of it being ran much is now minimal since its become fragile. Specifically the top... the engine is tired but has never had any major work done to it and is for the most part as it came from the factory.

[KWTownsend]

I have a skillions detail pictures of Phil's car. The tag is not on either the front or back of the bottom half. It may be on the top half.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

That is one beautiful Model T!! I can only imagine how fragile the soft goods such as the top and maybe the seats have become. But they are original only once, as they say, and changing anything would certainly change the car's lovely character.

[KimDobbins]

Mid year 1910.

[KWTownsend]

Mine is at the top, facing forward.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Hmmm, now I have seen original cars with the tag on the outside of the windshield, and I have seen images of (supposedly) original cars with the tag on the inside. It makes me wonder if there actually was a standard convention which way it went, other than to make sure it didn't read upside down. I could speculate that back when Ford was manufacturing these cars it probably wasn't all that important of a detail like it is to us anal restorers. Thanks for the pictures!