Trying to level my frame

[36mike]

I have a 1926 Runabout that I have owned for 59 years. For most of that time I have driven it around as a bare chassis. A couple of years ago I decided to put the body and fenders back on it. When it was together, it became obvious that everything was out of level. The driver's side is significantly lower than the passenger side.
Today I removed the rear spring clamps and lifted the frame a bit. I wiggled stuff around until the rear crossmember was level but as soon as I started tightening the U-bolts it would get out of whack.
I started by hand tightening the nuts until the tie-bar touched the spring. At this point I had about the same amount of bolt showing in all four places. I turned each nut 1/2 turn, and then another 1/2 turn. When I measured, the frame was out by 1/2 inch. I loosened everything and started over but got the same result.
The springs are original to the car and were worn where each leaf rubs the top of the one below.
It is hard to imagine that there is a problem at the front since the clamp it the 2 bolt type that could hardly be tightened improperly.
What am I missing?

Mike

[speedytinc]

You dont mention if the special square headed spring pack bolt is sitting in its frame square hole.

[John kuehn]

This is one way to do it from an earlier post on the forum. It worked for this frame.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1497523346

There are several others on the forum with information how to do it.

Do a general search on the net ‘frame straightening of a Model T Ford frame MTFCA’ and a lot of older posts will come up.

[TXGOAT2]

The square head on the spring tie bolt has to fit in the square hole in the center of the frame crossmember. That's true on the front and the back. There is a rubber or leather pad between the top of the spring and the crossmember. If that is missing or damaged, it could cause the problem you are having. It's also possible for spring problems to cause the car to lean one way or another due to broken leaves or loss of temper. Be absolutely certain that the frame is actually bent before making any attempt to straighten it.

[JTT3]

I seem to have the same problem with a 1925 pickup but it’s very random. When my daughter drives it it seems just fine, when my son-in-law drive it ditto seems level but every time
I get in to it it seems to lean significantly to the left. I’ve checked all the body mounts & pan mounts, all is good. I also noticed that I can take my hands off the steering wheel and drive in counter clockwise circles for hours. Maybe the frame is bent. I don’t know but I’m trying to sort it out.

Best John

[36mike]

The spring center bolt is in the hole where it belongs. I did not lift the frame high enough to see if there was padding but I think I can see it through the dowel holes in the top of the crossmember. I will track down the other threads and see what I can learn. Thanks.

Mike

[Allan]

Dare I mention this!!!!! John, how does your weight measure up to that of your daughter and son in law?
Allan from down under.

[Allan]

Mike, i don't think i would worry about such a small difference, especially if it is low on the driver's side. Most roads have a camber in them and your situation helps to diminish the effects of this on the car.

Otherwise, you might swap the spring around on the axle. if you have the same discrepancy, then the problem is in the mounting at the frame. If it is different, the spring itself may be the culprit.

Allan from down under.

[JTT3]

Allan both of them together, I’m in the neighborhood. I went on a diet but I wasn’t getting enough food so I went on another diet & between the two diets I’m getting enough now. I was wearing a light colored T shirt and went for a ride with my little granddaughter, when she & I got out of the T Elie said Pop you have a smiley face on your shirt. I have no idea how it got there hehe. Where’s that 13 3/4 steering wheel when you need it. Best John

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Being off by 1/2" is nothing to be concerned over. Think of it this way, one side is 1/4" high and the other is 1/4" low, so in reality, you're only off by 1/4".

[TXGOAT2]

Be sure all chassis points are oiled or greased, and oil the springs,too. Stiff springs can cause a car to lean. Be sure all 4 tires are the same diameter and be sure inflation is correct. Most pavement is not very level. Some of the spring leaves are mostly hidden by the cross members, and if one or more leaf is broken at the tie bolt, it can cause the car to lean,especially if half the broken leaf has fallen off, which does happen. I've come across several halves of broken 1st or 2nd front spring leaves shed by Model T Fords on country roads and in pastures and on old oil lease roads. If the shorter leaves break at the tie bolt, one or both halves can work loose and fall off. That will cause the car to lean, especially if just one half falls out.

[36mike]

The aforementioned 1/2 half inch was before the spring clams were anywhere near tight. The situation gets worse as the clamps get tighter. I was measuring at the lip of the rear crossmember where it terminates near the outer end. 1/2 inch there is more at the outer corner of the body.
I have a NORS front spring but I think it has an extra leaf. I could install it to eliminate the front as a problem. I'm sure I could put together a different rear spring, if needed.
Thanks to all.

Mike

[Colin Mavins]

my 1912 has been in constantly used for 95 years 65 of the years is my family and it had a bit of a sag to the driver side, we had a set of springs in the parts pile so when the crank broke Dad and I switched the springs and she sits level now.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Mike,

First, have you determined that you have no broken or cracked leaves in your rear spring? It may seem that a broken leaf would be obvious, but not always so, especially if it's only just cracked. Have you had the spring disassembled? You also mentioned the steps worn into the leaves by the action of the the leaves above them. Those steps can effect the way the spring compresses. The steps can cause an upper leaf to snag on the step of the leaf beneath it. As a last resort, you may try reassembling the spring, but with every other other leaf turned 180 degrees from its former position. This averages out the sag from one side or the other.

[36mike]

If I remember right, I radiused the bottom of each spring tip to eliminate the problem of the wear. I will get a good look at the springs and check for cracks/breaks.

Mike

[36mike]

I removed my rear spring and dismantled it. Nothing is cracked or broken. I was careful to reassemble it with all leaves in the same orientation as before. I installed the spring turned end for end to they way I took it apart. The measurements stayed the same. My rear crossmember is about 1/2 inch higher on the right side than it is on the left.
I have the car on my lift now, so I can get under it and look for some clues.
The front frame is also a bit higher on the passenger side. I'm investigating that too. My left front fender is wonky and makes the front end look much worse than it actually is.

Mike

[Allan]

Mike, you have done the right thing reassembling the rear spring as it was originally assembled.
There are three curves in all but the top couple of leaves, so if you mix up their orientation they are never likely to nest as hey should. You might get away with mixing up the assembly on the simple front spring
Allan from down under

[Norman Kling]

How does the car drive? If it pulls to the side when driven on a level surface such as a parking lot, something is wrong. If it pulls straight, don't worry about it. Have someone follow you. If the car tends to run sideways, you have a problem. Do you have the pad which fits on top of the spring between the spring and the frame? That could be slipped to one side. There should be a square hole for the head of the bolt through the pad and through the frame. One more thing which sometimes happens is the top of the leaves wears where the edge or the leaf above ends. Don't grind the leaf underneath, but round up the leaf above it so that it will slip back and forth on the leaf underneath. Also lubricate between the leafs so they can slide easily as the spring compresses. Hope I haven't confused you.
Norm