Slow To Crank

[CatGuy]

Not exactly what you think. Last night I tried starting my '26 for the first time in two years. I tried charging the battery, but it was taking it's time getting there so I decided to try my luck at crank starting it as the coils were buzzing. I got it to 'pop' a couple times and even got a 'free start' once, but it didn't start. The question I have is, how hard is it to crank over? I could barely get the crank to go up to the top. The engine was restored many years ago before I bought it. The compression readings are: 35, 40, 40, 40. The lever was in the full back position and all 4 wheels were on the ground. I've seen some videos where they just flip the crank over so easy a child could do it! Am I just getting weak from too much office/counter work?

[TXGOAT2]

Clutch and band adjustments can affect how easily the engine cranks. Thick or dirty oil can make a huge difference in how much the clutch drags. Putting a little oil on the crank bearing can help. Use a light oil as Ford recommended. (5W20 or 10W30). It might be revealing to remove all 4 spark plugs, ground the plug wires, and then see if the engine spins fairly easily with the plugs out. It should. Chilly weather will make the engine harder to crank and will increase clutch drag. Using correct oil will minimize that. Some clutch drag is unavoidable, but it should not be a serious problem except in very cold weather. In really cold weather, a 0W20 oil will give good service in a Model T.

[speedytinc]

Dragging clutch. Your compression is low. Should spin real easy.
If leave in gear(brake lever forward) there is generally less drag.
Try starting with one wheel up, in gear. You should notice its easier to crank.

[TXGOAT2]

Did you drain out all old fuel and replace it with fresh?

[CatGuy]

Did you drain out all old fuel and replace it with fresh?

No, I didn't yet. I need to do that.

[Altair]

Some of the clutch discs can stick together only running it will fix it. My T sat for a short time and I had to tow it for 1/2 a mile with the clutch disengaged to free it up. With the engine running and the clutch disengaged it took that long to free it up. I now park it with the clutch disengaged using a stick of wood between the seat frame and the clutch pedal. There was a Rolls Royce model that came with a stick on the floor and most people did not know what it was for, it was to keep the clutch disengaged while parked to avoid the issue of a sticky clutch.
You can jack up a rear wheel get it running disengage the clutch and gently apply the rear brakes to free it up.

[Scott_Conger]

FORD developed a revolutionary device which held the car in neutral and simultaneously set the parking brake to keep the car from rolling away.

Shortly after, the manufacturer of clutch pedal parking sticks went bankrupt.

[TXGOAT2]

Yet another example of that curmudgeonly robber baron auto maker, Henry Ford, ordering changes aimed at gittin' the liddleman!

[TXGOAT2]

"Some of the clutch discs can stick together only running it will fix it. My T sat for a short time..."

What are you using for motor oil? Have you removed the access plate on the oil pan to check for heavy sludge?

[CatGuy]

"Some of the clutch discs can stick together only running it will fix it. My T sat for a short time..."

What are you using for motor oil? Have you removed the access plate on the oil pan to check for heavy sludge?

I'm embarrassed to say I don't know. I haven't driven this more than 10 miles since I've had it. I should have changed the oil on day one, I know. I tried again last night to crank it and it acted like it would, but didn't. When I can find a place to dispose of the old gas I need to drain it. Also, a couple of times I nearly got a 'Free Start' out of it. I thought that was only for warm engines?

[TXGOAT2]

Free starts (usually) occur after the engine has been stopped for few minutes to a few hours.
.
I suggest draining ALL the old gas from the tank and carburetor, then adding 5 gallons of fresh gasoline with 2 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil added. Drain the crankcase and refill with 3 quarts of 10W30 oil and 1 pint of Marvel Mystery Oil. Remove the transmission cover plate and pour a pint of Marvel Mystery Oil into the transmission, then replace the cover plate. Squirt several healthy shots of Marvel Mystery Oil into the timer, if it is a stock Ford type roller timer. With the spark plugs out, squirt about a spoon full of clean oil into each cylinder, and crank the engine for a few dozen turns, ignition OFF, plugs out, then replace the clean and gapped plugs, and crank the engine by hand, ignition off, for several compression cycles, noting if compression is present in all 4 cylinders and checking for spark at each plug wire. Check for fuel flow to carb by opening the bowl drain. If fuel is present, close the drain and prepare car for starting, then apply normal starting procedure, manual or electric. The engine ought to start and run. I would do all of this outdoors in a well ventilated area.

[TXGOAT2]

If the battery has sat around for 2 years, it is probably more dead than alive, even if it was new 2 years ago. I would NOT use 12 volts for jump starting. Get a good 6 volt battery, or have yours load tested after an overnight charge.

[John kuehn]

T engines are like any older gas engines. You have to run them to keep them going. Old tractors, cars and old machinery runs well when you run them fairly often. The more you run them they tend to run and start better.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Scott H.,

On 9/12, it was suggested that you do this...

If [left] in gear (brake lever forward) there is generally less drag.
Try starting with one [rear] wheel up, in gear. You should notice it's easier to crank.

Have you done this?

[CatGuy]

Scott H.,

On 9/12, it was suggested that you do this...

If [left] in gear (brake lever forward) there is generally less drag.
Try starting with one [rear] wheel up, in gear. You should notice it's easier to crank.

Have you done this?

Unfortunately since this move this month all I've had to really do is work and move and work on house projects. I did think of this last night, but I was unsure of how this would work. Do I leave it in 'high' while doing this? There's no chance of it taking off is there?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Scott H.,

On 9/12, it was suggested that you do this...

If [left] in gear (brake lever forward) there is generally less drag.
Try starting with one [rear] wheel up, in gear. You should notice it's easier to crank.

Have you done this?

Unfortunately since this move this month all I've had to really do is work and move and work on house projects. I did think of this last night, but I was unsure of how this would work. Do I leave it in 'high' while doing this? There's no chance of it taking off is there?

Life gets in the way of fun...

You can leave it in high, or set the stick so that the transmission should be in neutral, (even though you may not really be seeing neutral due to the clutch possibly sticking). The important part is that one wheel be jacked off the ground and allowed to spin while you're cranking in high (or neutral), AND you have the front wheels adequately chocked just in case the rear axle should fall off the jack.

When/if the engine starts, allow it to run for a while until things warm up. The jacked-up wheel will continue to spin. Don't rev the engine too high since, because of the differential, the spinning wheel will be revving at double its normal speed.

After the oil heats up, try gradually moving the stick back to apply the parking brake. The heated oil usually dissolves away the old oil that's causing the high speed clutch to stick. Applying the brake should help to get things freed up. Don't let the brake drag too long, and don't let it stall the engine. It may take several tries. Eventually, things should free up so that both wheels are stopped and you can lower the jacked-up wheel, (after first shutting off the engine).

Wouldn't hurt to do your oil change before all of this...

[TXGOAT2]

You can get much of the benefit of hot oil by changing out the old oil for 10W30 cut with MMO. Pouring some MMO directly into the transmission can be very helpful at cutting gum. I'd pour the MMO in the trans with the clutch in "neutral".

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

You can get much of the benefit of hot oil by changing out the old oil for 10W30 cut with MMO. Pouring some MMO directly into the transmission can be very helpful at cutting gum. I'd pour the MMO in the trans with the clutch in "neutral".

He's referring to Marvel Mystery Oil...

I am not a fan of it. To each their own...

[Charlie B in N.J.]

Lets try to do some common sense diagnosing here. First off get the battery charged and perhaps capacity tested. They don't like sitting and may not hold a charge. Check the batt connections. What engine oil is in it? Thick old garbage? If so you should lose that. Do you have a braided negative battery cable? Lose that too. They heat up as they start to fail and resistance goes up. It'll slow crank from a bad cable. (Yeah mine did). Dump the old fuel. Any of this add in crap they sell to preserve it doesn't do a damn thing. As stated you compression isn't really great which really necessitates fresh fuel to start. I feel your problem lies in some of my first recommendations as in electrical/battery.

[TXGOAT2]

MMO is great stuff. It's also period correct and it smells pretty. It cleans like kerosene and lubricates like a quality 10W motor oil. It's less costly than many "additives", and if you add, say, 1 pint to crankcase oil, you save the considerable cost of 1 pint of quality motor oil, thus offsetting the cost of the MMO. Rislone is another excellent product. Using MMO in gasoline as directed restores some lubricity to the gasoline, which modern gasoline formulae utterly lack.

[Norman Kling]

I'https://www.facebook.com/groups/289269148380243/

[Norman Kling]

I've had good results with changing the oil first, then putting the rear wheels on Jack Stands and starting the engine. Warm it up a while and then with the parking lever in the neutral position, alternate using the low and reverse. That usually breaks loose the clutch disks. On older engines Which don't have the hardened strips on the inside of the brake drum sometimes there are grooves worn in the drum and it needs to be replaced with a good one. Also good time to replace the disks with new ones if they are blue which indicates they have been overheated. Good when you stop for a long signal to use the lever to hold in neutral because if you push too far it will burn the band lining and if not far enough will burn the disks. If the neutral link is adjusted correctly, the lever will keep it in the correct position.
Norm

[TXGOAT2]

OP's clutch is not stuck, but it may be dragging, either due to linkage adjustment or gummy oil.

[CatGuy]

I'm getting a slow start to this. Last night I bought a new battery and drained the gas. Great fuel flow! I'm going to replace the battery, cables, cable from the switch to starter, (with cables bought from Lang's) and other little things that I haven't had time to do. I have the parts so that is good.
One thing I noticed last night is that the gas cap doesn't have a hole drilled in it like my Model A does. Is that normal? I would think that they need one, too?

[TXGOAT2]

It should have a vent hole. I'd put the new battery in, oil the timer, if it is a Ford roller timer, and start and drive the car. Then, if it needs parts, you can start making a list. Nearly everything on a Model T needs oil, including body parts like door hinges and control rods, a number of points on the chassis, and the springs.

[CatGuy]

It should have a vent hole. I'd put the new battery in, oil the timer, if it is a Ford roller timer, and start and drive the car. Then, if it needs parts, you can start making a list. Nearly everything on a Model T needs oil, including body parts like door hinges and control rods, a number of points on the chassis, and the springs.

I am anxious to go for a drive, myself! When I came back in the house last night me wife asked me if I had gotten it started. I told her that there were other things I wanted to fix on it first. Last week, for some reason, when I was using the starter to start it, the battery cables got quite hot! I know the positive one is red so it might not be the correct gauge. I could be wrong.

[TXGOAT2]

Excess cranking will heat up the cables, but they should not get extremely hot. With any electric starter on any vehicle, it's best not to engage the stater for more than 10 to 15 seconds at a time. Doing so can overheat the starter windings. If the engine doesn't start within a few seconds of cranking, it's best to stop cranking and find out why the engine won't start, Letting the starter cool for a minute or two between starting attempts will prevent problems and save the battery. Neither the battery or the starter are designed for extended cranking duty. Most heavy duty cables I've come across are black, but I have seen some that are red. I've seen some red cables that are 80% insulation and 20% copper. They are good for display only.