Members Only Forum

[Humblej]

It has been said before but lets review the wisdom of allowing anyone to post on this forum. I notice there are currently 6 registered members and 116 guests on this forum. Guests should be few and temporary, not the majority of users. Lets support MTFCA and limit forum access to MTFCA members.

[TMiller6]

I rely on outside search engines to help me find automotive answers. Currently Bing and Google look into this forum and update their searches.

Would limiting access to paid members prevent these updates?

[walber]

Only members able to post - yea, that might be OK, could cut some clutter but potentially be unfriendly to those new to the hobby sending them to FB.

I would not be in favor of limiting read access to the forum. Let's try to be at least a little welcoming.

My opinion, yours may well vary.

[ewdysar]

I rely on outside search engines to help me find automotive answers. Currently Bing and Google look into this forum and update their searches.

Would limiting access to paid members prevent these updates?

Yes, the search engine updates would stop. Without knowing the current capabilities of the forum software, in some applications, known "users" like search engine service accounts could be "whitelisted" to get past blanket firewall rules.

But Jeff would know better on what could be done, or more importantly, what should be done and could be reasonably sustained, given our budget and resource limitations. Again, many well-intending folks here are pretty free with suggestions concerning other folks' time and money.

It's my personal opinion that locking down this forum to paid members only would kill off the forum in fairly short order. I've worked on staff for a couple of non-profit volunteer organizations and am current president on the board of another non-profit (not car related). Getting new people to participate in any group is the real challenge, not driving away the people that are already here. To me, paid memberships are gravy.

Keep crankin',
Eric

[Scott_Conger]

The following is posted with respectful annoyance...

In the past, I've been a member of both big clubs and started what is now a very large and active club in FL. I have run many local, regional and National Tours and been active in the Hobby for many years. Over those years I have tried to give back to the hobby in the form of supplying products for sale - not someone else's rusty junk, but real, useful, new or refurbished parts. I now live pretty much in isolation, do no touring and have almost zero contact with any "T" owners...have never traveled to a big flea market and likely never will...and yet, I serve the hobby in ways that in my opinion, far exceed the value of annual Club Dues - so the question is, "are the dues more valuable and supportive of the hobby than the parts that come from my shop?" If they are, the choice is simple, I'll pay dues, save myself a ton of trouble, and make stuff just for me and no one else (that is a very tempting idea).

If as a non-member/guest, I or any other guest/non-member has worn out their welcome as has just been suggested in the "Classified Forum" (and essentially here, too), please just say the word. The tiny group that will remain on the Forum can spend their bandwidth congratulating themselves for cleansing the hobby of the rabble. Be careful what you wish for.

Maybe a few folks could exercise some self-reflection and a ask themselves if a little less of the snarky "DO YOUR HOMEWORK!" sort of admonitions to new members asking honest questions (and thereby ARE doing their homework) are not perhaps taking a harder toll on membership than do the guests who supply your parts.

And all this because a very small number of folks inadvertently overlooked the nearly obvious fact that the seller/buyer they were dealing with had a Forum History of less than 1 week. Those folks admitted they "goofed" but interestingly it's not them blaming "guests", some of who have been around for many many years.

[PorkChops]

It has been said before but lets review the wisdom of allowing anyone to post on this forum. I notice there are currently 6 registered members and 116 guests on this forum. Guests should be few and temporary, not the majority of users. Lets support MTFCA and limit forum access to MTFCA members.

I'm really new here, so I hope I'm not talking out of turn, being unaware of any historical side to this issue. But I'm a bit confused by the above. As far as I see it, there are Registered Users, who have signed up to and have a profile on the forum; Members of the MTFCA, who presumably automatically have a profile on the forum; and Guests, who may be one of the previous 2 groups but not logged in to their forum profile or who may be 'everyone else'. Surely only Registered Users or Memebrs of MTFCA can post on the forum?

For what it's worth, being able to access the forum as a Guest was invaluable for me in my lead up to the decision to buy a T. It provided so much information about the cars, the knowledge around Ts and, crucially, the camaraderie and willingness to give advice, that I had the confidence to take the plunge. I have had so much fun with the car in my short ownership that I am really grateful for having had that access.

I have had only one query so far and the almost instant advice was superb - I really appreciate that. So, if my situation is anything to go by, keeping the forum behind closed doors might not be great for the hobby.

I'd be consider being a member of the MTFCA if it was required to post on the forum but in the UK I doubt I'd get any other benefits from membership.

[Rich P. Bingham]

I am no longer a dues paying member, because like Scott, I am isolated from participation in a club chapter, tours, swap meets, etc. a selfish choice, I’ll admit, but my financial situation requires me to be parsimonious. I would hope that my participating on the forum is mutually beneficial enough to warrant a “pass”. In general, open access is most beneficial to the hobby, as this forum is the reliable source of information for those seeking help. I participate on FB, mainly for the purpose of encouraging folks to join MTFCA, and seek help here. Not to be overly critical, but too often responses to the FB site amount to the blind leading the blind.

[A Whiteman]

there are Registered Users, who have signed up to and have a profile on the forum; Members of the MTFCA, who presumably automatically have a profile on the forum; and Guests, who may be one of the previous 2 groups but not logged in to their forum profile or who may be 'everyone else

Agree, registered does not mean you are in the MTFCA, but are 'registered' on this forum. Guests are as described above.

I am a member of an overseas 'chapter' of the MTFCA but not the MTFCA itself. Does that mean I have to leave the forum?

For what it's worth, being able to access the forum as a Guest was invaluable for me in my lead up to the decision to buy a T. It provided so much information about the cars, the knowledge around Ts and, crucially, the camaraderie and willingness to give advice, that I had the confidence to take the plunge. I have had so much fun with the car in my short ownership that I am really grateful for having had that access.

Surely that is the point!
Share the enthusiasm, share knowledge, be friendly and welcoming.
That's how I got started into the hobby too.

Make this forum exclusive and you end up excluding folk.... then no one left to post.

I don’t do facebook and so there are few options out there.

[big2bird]

If you want to promote this seemingly dying hobby, making it a members only club will finish it off. My 2 cents.

[BrianE63]

When I was just becoming interested in Model T’s, this forum was my first contact with the MTFCA and gave me the chance to see how much support and information could be found in the community. Without access to the forum I could have easily decided that it wasn’t worth the bother. If we are going to be welcoming to those that are new to the hobby (and potential future club members) it’s important for our public face to be friendly and accessible. I believe it’s worth the occasional problems to keep the forum as open as possible.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

Slamming the door on what very well might be a much larger group than anyone suspects is just damn foolish. I don’t see any problems here so let’s not create one.

[jab35]

Jeff: Rather than excluding guests, why not recruit them to join MTFCA?

And IIRC, people reading the forum but not logged in are 'guests', I don't think a guest is necessarily a non MTFCA member. Respectfully, jb

[John kuehn]

Just for information purposes Facebook has 10 specifically related Model T Ford sites. Owners, parts, classifieds among others. People are looking for information where they can find it. Most sites have several thousand members more or less.

Yes I know some folks don’t like Facebook for different reasons. Some old car, Model T Ford, old Ford tractors sites let you have access but not to buy or sell or post.

The interest is there for the Model T hobby to an extent and my opinion to keep the hobby growing being the ONLY T site for information may not be in the best overall way to go.
Several years ago that may have been OK but times have changed and it’s hard to get use to for some. Being inclusive is probably the best way to go to generate interest. Just some random thoughts.

[NoelChico]

I'm currently finishing out Dave Currier's Board term and hoping for another term (Hint, Hint!). We have discussed this issue numerous times and believe that promoting this hobby is one of our primary objectives. We feel that the forum is a valuable tool to encourage membership of those both new and old to the hobby. As such we have been reluctant to restrict its access to members only. Many of us first gained knowledge of the MTFCA through the forum. I found it 20+ years ago and it and the MTFCA have markedly expanded our enjoyment of the hobby with new friends and travels. Jeff is doing a good job of policing the forum, but needs to be notified of abusers, as he can't read every post. His and ours are volunteer positions.

[JohnM]

Jeff: Rather than excluding guests, why not recruit them to join MTFCA?

And IIRC, people reading the forum but not logged in are 'guests', I don't think a guest is necessarily a non MTFCA member. Respectfully, jb

Bingo! I'm on this forum daily but maybe post a comment once a week or two. I only sign in to post a comment, that makes me a "guest" most of the time.

[Henry K. Lee]

As the wheel of economics and social interaction runs its coarse, we fail to realize that a few pay the dues and others benefit for free. With that said, not putting anyone down, we will run out of those paid members that contribute the funds and then the dues increase. Sounds familiar as this is how and why the government imposes new or higher taxes. I see both sides of the disagreements as good and bad but with everything going to the cyber fairy with his side kick scammer, we need some sort of safeguard.

I agree to disagree respectfully, but us older guys and gals have paid our dues and now others should join for the betterment of the hobby. Buy books, pay dues, be helpful in sharing knowledge and don't be a victim. This was the core values of all clubs in the beginning so why are we changing our morals and values to aid others? If this is the new normal, you will be driving and working on your Model T's on some sort of simulator via game box. Reality is awake up call and you need to reassess the situation to see where you want to be.

Yes..., times are changing. But why? How many of you have kids and when you where trying to get them involved in repairing an old car or anything....., "It's not their thing or he is good at sports"! My father told my brother and I this when we challenge him at ages 12 and 14......, "I do not give a sh!t what you want..., I am your father and I know what is best. You will thank me later in life when you can provide for your family. Now lets go and fix the car"!

We change to make others happy to prevent convicts, etc....., but the big picture is two generations down the road.

[Dan Hatch]

Nothing can or should stop any one from looking at the forum. It is just posting, listing and contacting members to sell them things should be a privilege of being a club member. That is what I am talking about. Let anyone who wants to learn about Model T should be able to look at club website and maybe they will want to join the club to get the privilege of getting on the forum.
The way it is now why join?
Remember the saying about cows and free milk? Dan

[Scott_Conger]

Since October 1, 2025, there have been 23 people interested enough in the Forum, to sign up and of those 23, a grand total of 6 of them are MTFCA members...just 1/4 of them.

So, right now, 3/4 of your potential members, car buyers, kids, grandfathers, future suppliers, and everyone in-between, that have joined the Forum this month, are learning that they are freeloaders and unwelcome regardless of their past, present, or potential support to the hobby.

I ran through a bit of the list of the 5000+ Forum members and if you did the same, you might be shocked as to the number of suppliers and revered "old hands" who are not club members for one reason or another.

As you actively seek to exclude people, ask yourself why many MANY of the people who were the backbone of the club and/or hobby in general - people who were the go-to people for years when suppliers were scarce, who wrote papers, articles, and spearheaded the printing of how-to magazines and put out Videos on every subject under the sun - where are those people now? Many are still around but you wouldn't know it because they see no value in participating here any more. Their reasons are their reasons and I don't purport to know why, but a thoughtful person would at least ask the question...

You lament the loss of parts and parts suppliers? Keep working at driving people away as unwanted and unvalued contributors to the hobby and you'll soon be left with nothing but very large yard art surrounded by surprisingly green grass.

For those who support banning posters unless they are Club members, you need to be able to answer this question: "And then what?"

[Allan]

I am one of Scott's " old hands" who are not club members for one reason or another." I am a 1964 foundation member of the MTFCA though, the Model T Ford Club of Australia. The MTFC of America forum is part of a much larger group than MTFCA members. This world reach is vital to the interests of us all. Any move to narrow its range of participants is a retrograde step.

Allan from down under

[Rod]

Starting in 2025 I have been a Forum Admin. We have done two things to keep the forum working smoothly. First we increased the bandwidth and server memory. Second we implemented Firewalls to keep the bad bots out.

If you click on Board Index at the top of this page and then go to the bottom, you will see the actual guests and users. Right now we have 376 users and Most Ever is 1901. I police this every day and continue to modify the firewall to keep the bad actors out.

FYI, Guests can only look and are unable to post or contact our users. Only Members can post in the Classifieds. Users cannot post in the classified section but can message the advertiser and purchase items.

I encourage everyone to become a member as it helps fund our organization. It costs only $50 per year in the US, which is 14 cents per day. Members receive 6 magazines per year in addition to the forum benefits. We are a nonprofit organization almost entirely run by volunteers.

Thanks,
Rod Barrett
MTFCA Treasurer

[varmint]

I posted items in the classifieds for sale to members only for the purpose of encouraging owners to become MTFCA members.
But now I see from the comments that this may be misconstrued as shunning non-members. I do not want to do that. So, I will be changing those posts to open to all.

[Will]

When I first bought my T over 25 years ago I looked to the forum for information on different repairs that I needed to do. A wealth of information was given not only on how to make repairs but where to find the parts needed. Back then a lot of the parts I needed came form the classified page. Now living on a fixed income there just isn't any funds for luxuries like memberships. But also now 25 years into the hobby I can give advice to new T owners. One thing I'm curious about is how much money members are losing by not being able to sell parts to non members on the classified page. It would seem to me that slamming that door shut has cost the seller a lot of customers. Also people that have parts to sell that are non members are choking off the availability of needed parts to repair the Model T car and get them back on the road. The model T hobby is slowing. In my county there are only about 5 model T's compared to hundreds of hot rods and much faster vintage cars say from the mid 40's to the 70's. The biggest reason is highway speeds. Most feel the Model T is to dangerous to be on the modern highway due its low speed. When I take my T out I try to stick to roads that traffic can easily get around me. I also have yellow strobe lights mounted to the back of my car to warn traffic of a slow moving vehicle. I understand that membership dues keep the lights on but if you restrict people from using the forum in any way then you are in turn losing possible future members

[Farmer J]

The forum is an expensive luxury that the MTFCA provides to all that enjoy the Model T Ford. It is financed solely by the dues paying members of the MTFCA. In my nine years as a board member and two years as president of this organization, the topic of only allowing Members to post on the forum has come up at just about every meeting. The consensus has always been that doing so would probably kill the forum.

The solution to this problem is very simple. If you really like the forum as it is, but don’t want to pay the $50 membership dues then send a smaller donation to the club for your part in helping keeping the forum going.

Rod, Chris and Jeff have done a great job, keeping the forum up and running, and deserve our praise for doing so.

[tmodeldriver]

I have been a member of MTFCA for a long time. I scan over this forum every day. I'm looking for information, parts I might want to buy and entertainment. Sometimes just for the comedy. I don't post here very often but will if I feel I can contribute something worthwhile.

I very much appreciate the efforts of the folks who maintain this forum. It must be a huge job with poor compensation.

The MTFCI once had a thriving forum as well and through a series of things that I don't actually remember it got run into the ground. I don't think it even exists anymore. Please, let's not let that happen to this one.

This forum needs to stay just as it is now, Bob Hester

[TXGOAT2]

If you choose to buy or sell, ANYWHERE, it is up to you, as an adult, to do your due diligence. The people who run this website do a fine job of keeping it cleaned up and running smoothly. People who act in bad faith complicate every aspect of life, so we must all be on guard against them.

[PorkChops]

The solution to this problem is very simple. If you really like the forum as it is, but don’t want to pay the $50 membership dues then send a smaller donation to the club for your part in helping keeping the forum going.

Well that sounds pretty fair and easily done.
Done!

[big2bird]

I belong to many car forums, and even moderated one.
These survive on sponsors, and one is sole owner.

If i may suggest, keep the forum a separate entity. Make it pay for itself.

Solicite Ford for a sponsorship, or perhaps a grant. Good publicity for USA 250th birthday. Tax deductible. Stress that we preserve a part of their history.

Solicite Jay Leno to help with a small grant. Ask Bezos ex for a stipend.

Open a go fund me account. Someone that has fond T memories might contribute.

Just tossing ideas. What's yours?

[TXGOAT2]

Supporting MTFCA is sufficient.

[TRDxB2]

Allowing others to view the content in the MTFCA is the only way to attracted new users & possible new members to join the MTFCA. On occasion when doing a search for information I was instructed to "join" to see the response. I already have enough websites that require user & passwords so I skip joining. I believe this is a correct representation of the terminology for who may be what....

[Henry K. Lee]

Can't afford a membership but can afford an antique car......., Priorities are in the wrong order !

[Scott_Conger]

Since moving to WY, my 4 cars remain unregistered and off the road. Over the years, I've simply lost more and more interest in the hobby and honestly, all of the angst about "banning" people all for 3-4 guys who got burned by someone where all the warning signs existed is simply ridiculous. After 20+ years trying to "belong" by being a past member of both major clubs, presently making parts for the hobby including a full line of carb parts NO ONE ELSE MAKES, it simply isn't enough to be one of the beautiful people in the hobby.

If my priorities are not straight, perhaps making parts for a car I no longer really care about, and selling them at a fair price to people who would ban me from the Club's site if it was within their power to do so, is my biggest error in priorities. I can fix that right quick, and you can damn well believe that it won't involve my checkbook.

[Mike Silbert]

I have seen a lot of things change over the last 50 years, yes, I still remember parts of the 1975 MTFCI tour in Williamsburg Va as a kid.
Back then there were no personal computers much less the internet or a forum.
I watched the MTFCI forum come and go, and I have watched a lot of really great knowledgeable people try to help others and get frustrated and leave the MTFCA forum.
I resisted joining the forum for a very long time because I have other things to do and did not want to participate in some of the pissing contests that used to happen sometimes.
Everyone has different ideas, different circumstances, different tools and materials, different budgets, different time available, different help available, and different skills. There is no one out there exactly like each of us with the same situation.
All of us need to patrol the forum and ourselves to make this forum a success.
Paul Harvey said it best:
"Self-Government does not work without Self-Discipline"

For many years before I even joined the forum, I would use the forum to help others solving their problems.
I have been tech advisor for multiple T club chapters (most of which I am not even a member) for over 25 years now.
I could send a link to a particular discussion to show example pictures and other ideas.
Every time I would use the forum to help others with their Model T problems they would show up as a non-member guest.
When I search the forum from a computer that is not my desktop computer at home - like from my work PC, helping dad (who never signed up) I show up as a non-member guest.
If I happen to be using the computer on my desk and have not logged in yet I also show up as a non-member guest.
In order to get the messages of interest I use the forum search, Google search, and sometimes Bing and MSN searches.
Most of these show up as bot searches.
There are many legitimate Model T Ford hobby enhancing reasons that there are people on the forum and not showing up as either logged in or as members.
The reason for the club and the forum is to promote and not chase away those interested Model T's.
Closing too much will make it eventually die and not do the hobby a service at all.

Now after saying all that there are often bad apples in a basket if it is big enough.
The bigger (more successful) the forum the bigger the target for troublemakers.
The administrators of the forum perform a thankless job that I cannot do or fully understand.
I am very thankful for all they do but they walk a fine line.
We must remain open enough to welcome new members and possible new members but be closed enough for proper security.
Everything has to be done on a limited budget and often under fire from several directions.
The world of computer security and software is constantly changing, and we as users have every type and configuration of machines.
Hackers and spammers spend lots more time and effort on hiding their schemes than the honest people spend searching for answers.
Keeping it all under control must often feel like a never-ending impossible task.
I am sure our administrators would rather spend time driving, showing, and working on their cars than fixing the forum.

So what can be done about it?
Make sure what you do is proper, fair, inviting, and non-controversial. We already do a fairly good job of this.
When we do run across the occasional problem it needs to be reported.
I for one do not know how to report a problem.
I know this has been covered in the past but would have to search to dig up what to do.
Ironically, I probably would use Google to figure it out and show up as a Google Bot instead of a logged in user.

I don't really want to add more on the Forum Administrators but have a suggestion:
If the instructions of how to report an issue were added to the Posting Issue Announcement message it would be in a clear place for all to see at the top of the General Page.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=871

If any one of us find a legitimate issue, then it could be reported easily and swiftly delt with.
Please do not flood the administrators with petty issues, they have enough to do already.
Do normal due diligence, keep it all positive and work together.
The world has enough negativity and personal attacks; we don't need them here.
If you want to drive people away, make it too closed.
If you want to drive people away, then make it negative.
If you want to drive people away, then make it about money.
Keep it about the cars, documenting history, project successes and failures, and helping each other.

Just my 2 cents worth

[Ed Fuller]

I read the forum multiple times a day. I only log in when I want to make a post or to send someone an email. Probably 95 percent of the time I am on the forum I am not logged in so it shows that I am a guest and not a member.

I think everyone is getting too wrapped up in the "Who is online" statistics stuff at the bottom of the forum index page that shows how many "guests" and how many "members" are on the forum. The only purpose I see that it serves is to give those that love to complain something to complain about.

If any changes are to be made to the forum, it should be to eliminate the ability for everyone to see who is online. I always say, "Ignorance is bliss!"

Is there anyone besides me who actually looks at the colorful pie chart that is printed every year in the Vintage Ford that shows how much of the club's overall budget is spent on the forum? It's not that much.

Forcing people to pay to use the forum will just continue to push people to the Facebook Model T group pages.

Would I be ok if my dues increase so the forum could continue to be free for anyone? Of course! I honestly can't think of a better way to promote the hobby and the club.

Anyway, I better hurry up and finish this post so I can log out!

[speedytinc]

Reporting couldnt be easier.
On the all posts there is an (! & a ") in the right corner.
You clicked the (") to comment on the post.
Click on the (!). a screen will pop up asking for an explanation of why you find the post objectionable.
Many times another diligent participant has already reported. It so states.
I tried to report one today that had porn links. Someone beat me to it. That post disappeared shortly after.
No doubt due to monitoring by site admin. Thanks much Admin. The system does work.

[bnchief]

The following is posted with respectful annoyance...

In the past, I've been a member of both big clubs and started what is now a very large and active club in FL. I have run many local, regional and National Tours and been active in the Hobby for many years. Over those years I have tried to give back to the hobby in the form of supplying products for sale - not someone else's rusty junk, but real, useful, new or refurbished parts. I now live pretty much in isolation, do no touring and have almost zero contact with any "T" owners...have never traveled to a big flea market and likely never will...and yet, I serve the hobby in ways that in my opinion, far exceed the value of annual Club Dues - so the question is, "are the dues more valuable and supportive of the hobby than the parts that come from my shop?" If they are, the choice is simple, I'll pay dues, save myself a ton of trouble, and make stuff just for me and no one else (that is a very tempting idea).

If as a non-member/guest, I or any other guest/non-member has worn out their welcome as has just been suggested in the "Classified Forum" (and essentially here, too), please just say the word. The tiny group that will remain on the Forum can spend their bandwidth congratulating themselves for cleansing the hobby of the rabble. Be careful what you wish for.

Maybe a few folks could exercise some self-reflection and a ask themselves if a little less of the snarky "DO YOUR HOMEWORK!" sort of admonitions to new members asking honest questions (and thereby ARE doing their homework) are not perhaps taking a harder toll on membership than do the guests who supply your parts.

And all this because a very small number of folks inadvertently overlooked the nearly obvious fact that the seller/buyer they were dealing with had a Forum History of less than 1 week. Those folks admitted they "goofed" but interestingly it's not them blaming "guests", some of who have been around for many many years.

Well said Scott and a very good point as well if you do not want what someone is selling or do not like what they post ignore it but do not deny others help they may find.