Non Demountable Wheels on Late T's

[Original Smith]

The inexpensive Ford models in the 1920's were sold without demountable wheels and starter and generators. How many of these exist today? An example is on the back cover of the current Model T Times. It has 30X3 non demountable wheels in front, and 30X3 1/2 non demountable wheels in the back. If you look closely through the rear spokes, I think I see a battery. So, it's possible a starter has been added. I saw a late T touring about 30 years ago like this. It would be nice if the owner can give us some information on this vehicle.

[Ed Baudoux]

Maybe a dozen years ago, one of the T publications did a detailed article on a restored 27 non electric roadster.

[Ed Baudoux]

https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/1 ... 1311220023

[KWTownsend]

Larry,
Why don't you reach out to the owners, Lee and Pam Doud, of Pine City NY, and ask them?
Keith

[Original Smith]

I assume the 1925 frames had the holes drilled for the battery carrier, so it would be easy to install one. However, two of the holes had the carrier riveted in, and the remaining hole was for the ground strap. from the factory.

[Original Smith]

Someone mentioned top saddles. I believe Ford ceased putting top saddles on cars around 1922 or 23, and put hard rubber plugs in the holes. I assume by that time the majority of Ford owners didn't put their tops down much, and maybe that is why that happened, but the real reason, I believe, it enabled Ford to reduce the cost of the car. Of course, the owner could still buy those parts at the dealer.

[NoelChico]

Our 1923 touring, in the family since 1926, still had the plugs on the top saddle holes.

[Original Smith]

I received more information from Trent. You could get your new car with any combination that was available at the time. I could be wrong, but I assume most vehicles sold without starters, and demountable wheels were TT trucks.

[DanTreace]

33,000+. Non-Starter Runabouts sold in 1925. Likely some sold as pickups or converted by dealers on owners request for the bed instead of deck.

Also, would think late non-demountable clincher wheels would be the all steel felloe 30 x 3 and 30 x 3 1/2 versions instead of the wood square felloe.

Hamilton OH Ford stamping plant made all metal felloe wheels and later welded spoke wires.

[speedytinc]

I have not seen non D steel fellows on non starter T's. I did see an original, non messed with 26 electric delete roadster.
It had 30x3 & 30x3.5" wood fellow wheels.
Is there evidence (pictorial or otherwise) of steel fellow, non demountable wheels coming on a T from the factory?

[DanTreace]

I have not seen non D steel fellows on non starter T's. I did see an original, non messed with 26 electric delete roadster.
It had 30x3 & 30x3.5" wood fellow wheels.
Is there evidence (pictorial or otherwise) of steel fellow, non demountable wheels coming on a T from the factory?

Scroll to my photos of original T’s with metal felloe spoke wheels, both 3” and 3 1/2”. Pics at Oct 21 and 22


https://share.google/vlLELHCA9yzidW18i

[Gleaner]

I own an original 1926 roadster pickup and it has nondemountable rims. But it does have a starter. All things like demountable rims, starters were still extras. But by this time many dealers ordered in cars with these extras and priced the package together not really telling the customer he could get the car cheaper. However by this time most customers wanted electric start anyway.

[AndreFordT]

Not only the wheels were different.

Those cars had also two petrol side and a rear lights.
The brackets of the front lights are fixed with the two upper bolts of the windsheeld support.
The rear light had the small lens (red) pointed to the rear and the big lens (door) pointed to the licence plate.
(See photo's)
(They came with my 1926 runabout)

The contact switch plate had no amp meter (must have some photos of this somewhere)
The place for the amp meter was flat. On the back there was a resistance for the front lights working with the marneto.

Just what I know about.
Andre

[AndreFordT]

here by the drawing of the 1926 non electric switch.

[dykker5502]

Thats interesting, because that's not a resiator sitting there, but an inductor - a coil with variable resistance depending on frequency. The voltage from the magneto raise with the revs, but it is AC, so using a coil for resistance it will be higher at the higer revs and voltage ensuring almost same current through the headlamps. It is most likely the same inductor that sits in meny HCCTs that can meassure the performance of the magneto.

They knew what they did back then.

[TXGOAT2]

The inductor, a coil on a laminated iron core in series with the lighting circuit, acted to regulate AC current flow to the headlights on the magneto only cars. The inductive effect tended to support current flow at lower engine RPM and limit (choke) it at higher RPM / frequency. They were sold as aftermarket accessories for earlier cars under various trade names. I don't think you'd want one in the ignition circuit.

[TXGOAT2]

The primary winding of a modern ignition coil might serve the same purpose.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Remember, the demountable wheel and electrics options on the open body model Ts of the 1920s, were two separate options. A dealer or customer could choose one or the other, or neither or both.
As someone that has looked very closely at literally thousands of era photos of model T?
Just an observation, for whatever it is worth. I have noticed for many years that a lot more open body Ts of 1919 into 1927 were equipped with non-demountable wheels than had oil sidelamps indicating that the electrics package was declined.
Of course, there is always the possibility that the car could have been altered after it left the factory? Oil sidelamps might have been removed? Or wheels may have been changed? However, I have seen at least a hundred era photos clearly showing non-demountable rim wheels and no sign of oil sidelamps indicating that the car likely does have a starter. Photos showing Ts of the 1920s with oil sidelamps are few and usually far between. I would estimate that nearly ten times as many Ts were sold without the demountable rim wheels, than were sold without the starter.
The true loss leader open T with neither option was sold by the thousands! However, relative to the millions of model Ts sold those years, the true loss leader was a rarity. Open Ts with non-demountable wheels were actually fairly common during the 1920s.

I would speculate that the daily need to start the car a few times was considered to be a greater inconvenience than the occasional need to repair a flat tire alongside the road. By the 1920s, tires were actually a lot better and more reliable than they had been even only five years before. And horseshoe nails which had been the bane of automobilists prior to the Great War had become much less of a problem.

[Original Smith]

My very first Model T was a 1926 touring. It had demountable 30 X 3 1/2 all the way around. What was really interesting on that car, was it had every genuine Ford accessory available on it.