Engine noise

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TonyB
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Engine noise

Post by TonyB » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:42 pm

Some months ago the crank in my 14 Touring broke. Eventually I replaced it with a Scat but the engine was noisy. To my ears it sounded like a camshaft noise. I checked the end play, only a couple of thou thanks to the Chaffin Kit that mounts on the front lof the cam gear wheel. With the upcoming tour in Sierra Vista, I decided I could not take the car with the noise so I kept looking
When you use the Scat crank with a four dip pan, the counter weights come very, very close to the sump and there is no space for the “U” shaped bars to hold the inspection cover screws. So I chopped the U bar in half and made two “J” shapes.
One just touched the counter weight. On the picture you can see the shiny bit
Shiny bit on end of J bar
Shiny bit on end of J bar
The camshaft looks fine, I can’t see any rubbing marks though the center bearing may be in wrong way round. So far I can’t find any documentation to which way it goes, but even so it does not appear to touch anything😊😊
By the way this gives you some idea of what I disassembled to find the problem.
Attachments
Nite the pegs to hold the tappets
Nite the pegs to hold the tappets
To expose the cam gear and remove camshaft
To expose the cam gear and remove camshaft
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


Norman Kling
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Re: Engine noise

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:48 pm

Is your crankshaft a standard T stroke? I have one in my 26 and don't have a problem. I would suggest that you grind just a little off the J shaped bar in the position the crank touches it.
Norm


Allan
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Re: Engine noise

Post by Allan » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:39 pm

There have been enough instances of this to warrant a warning tag attached to the crankshaft to check for such clearance. I know it's not the manufacturer's problem to check clearances, but a heads up to likely difficulties would make for good relations. I found one problem just hand cranking the motor on the stand. It was enough to prevent cranking! The one on my 1925 roadster had no such problems.

Allan from down under.

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TonyB
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Re: Engine noise

Post by TonyB » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:25 pm

I knew it would be tight but I’ve done other, starting with the speedster in the 90’s so I was careful. It must be very close as the noise changed when I push the clutch and with new Babbitt the play is probably 4-6 thou it does not make the noise on the starter and I had no problems cranking the motor.
I’ll lie under the motor tomorrow and decide how to proceed.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


Gonenorth
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Re: Engine noise

Post by Gonenorth » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:39 am

Is this a problem with only some model year blocks? I have a SCAT crank in mine and have absolutely no issues with it in my '26. Engine number dates it back to the second week of December 1925, So I would guess the motor was manufactured some weeks prior to that.

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RajoRacer
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Re: Engine noise

Post by RajoRacer » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:34 am

Tony - paragraph 480 in my 1925 original Ford Service book states "install the notch of the center bearing towards the rear".

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TonyB
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Re: Engine noise

Post by TonyB » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:25 pm

Thanks for the position of the notch in the center bearing. I don’t see it in the MTFCA Engine booklet.
By the way, the crank I installed in the Speedster was the one from New Zealand as SCAT was not then available 😊😊
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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AndreFordT
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Re: Engine noise

Post by AndreFordT » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:00 pm

Did you check the rod bolt heads of the second piston at the camshaft side.

Last year someone brought me an engine with a strange knock. The owner did an overhaul with new crankshaft new rods new pistonsand rings new valves and seats . Since the rebuild there was a knock he couldn't find.

This what I found:



Good luck

Andre
Belgium
DSCN744702.JPG
Attachments
RSCN7452.JPG


Adam
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Re: Engine noise

Post by Adam » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:20 pm

My top two suggestions:

1) Crank still is tapping the reinforcement.

2) Rod bolt head is tapping against the cam (Especially if you are using new bolts. Often the heads are too tall.)


Randall strickland
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Re: Engine noise

Post by Randall strickland » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:59 pm

I installed a scatt in a 3 dip,I bolted the u bars in without inspection and rotated crank, crank was hitting the rear u a tiny bit so I marked and remove u and ground some clearance

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Topic author
TonyB
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Re: Engine noise

Post by TonyB » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:51 am

I looked back in my notebook and on the three dip pan of the speedster, the rear inspection pan bolt hit the crank. I cut the U bar into two Js and brazed a bolt into the rear center hole.
I suspect that over the last hundred years the pans get slightly distorted and the fixtures only check the bolt patterns and NOT the depth of the pan. By the time I know everything about Model Ts, I’ll be too old to do anything with the knowledge ☹️
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.

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Topic author
TonyB
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:15 am
First Name: Tony
Last Name: Bowker
Location: Ramona, CA
MTFCA Number: 32
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Engine noise

Post by TonyB » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:52 pm

I fixed the clearance between the counter weight and the J (were U) irons and put it all back together and the noise has gone.
Now to get the car ready for the Sierra Vista tour. I’ll take the torque wrench so I can check the torque on the cylinder head during the tour.
Tony Bowker
Ramona, California
1909 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


Norman Kling
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Re: Engine noise

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:53 am

Glad your engine is fixed and ready for the tour. Have fun.
Norm


SurfCityGene
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Re: Engine noise

Post by SurfCityGene » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:16 pm

Tony, Have a Safe Trip. We'll see you there!
1912 Torpedo Roadster


Steve Hughes
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Re: Engine noise

Post by Steve Hughes » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:25 pm

Glad you got it fixed for Sierra Vista. I will see you there.

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