Model A motor into a T?

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Sarikatime
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Model A motor into a T?

Post by Sarikatime » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:42 pm

My friend wants to replace a worn out T motor with a model A motor in his 25 pickup. Any suggestions and advice on the exchange and things to watch out for. Would appreciate any and all advice, pro or con. Frank


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:44 pm

Replace the frame too.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:01 pm

I’m doing it now. I love both the t and the a, so I’m going for it. I’m using the a trans as well. Custom motor mounts will need to be made. An aluminum spacer on either side of the a flywheel housing 5/8 will space the new motor mounts and allow the engine to be mounted like the t. I haven’t gotten to the front motor mount design yet. Another thing is that the a engine is longer and also taller. The hand brake cross shaft will need to be moved rearward and down lower. 5 inches back one inch down to clear the model a trans. The driveshaft and torque tube will need to be cut and adapted depending what you will do for the rear axle. I’m using a large drum t axle with Rockies, you will loose the t trans brake so good brakes are imperative! I will cut the t tube and use the front section on a model a tube welded to it and do the same for the driveshaft. Obviously the entire car is being built around all these changes, not simple, not easy, completely custom. But the end result will be a fun and interesting car. If you like early style hotrods( gow job) then this is a good project for you and may open your mind to a whole new, yet ancient forgotten segment of old fords.
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David Mazza
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:04 pm

Also I will use a model t water pump mounted to the side of the a engine and block off the water outlet on the top of the head. I will make a 1/2 plate to adapt the 26/27 t water outlet to that. Just lots of stuff to engineer as you go.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:21 pm

Someone on here did it long ago, wish I knew more about this one! They used a model b exhaust manifold
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by bud delong » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:37 pm

Yes and no,That"s a model B engine! Bud. :D


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:41 pm

Your right. No outside oil pipe!

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Susanne » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:20 pm

It looks nice, except there's this strange protrusion between the 2 and 3 spark plug... :lol:

Something else to remember - the front wishbone (which anchors on the T pan) determines your caster... you don't get that right, you're in a world of squirrley hurt. As you're building motor mounts et al, don't forget this... otherwise your first ride may be your last...


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:36 pm

Yes, your right the wishbone up front and the radius rods will also need modifications. I need to get the engine in exactly where it needs to be and everything built around that before the front wishbone can be properly determined to be sure the geometry is correct. So it’s a ton of work, needing to be done one step at a time. I actually made of detailed list of things needing to be done and what effects another system or part, to not mess up and have to go back to correct something. The protrusion is either the model a brake cross shaft straps or a digital caliper. I’m sure something else will come up that I haven’t thought of. Probably exhaust system and fuel system.

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by John iaccino » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:22 pm

About 20 years ago, a friend of mine mated a model a ford block to a model t pan and tranny. Truly a work of art. I think the car is in Kansas now. It was a black era touring.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by George Hand » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:35 pm

Wouldn't it be smarter to use the Model A chassis and get real brakes and steering.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:37 pm

Yes indeed it would have been smarter! But I love building things that are different, and having fun with old fords.

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by John Warren » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:15 pm

4-1-13 k.jpg
3-17-13.jpg
4-9-16 b.jpg
My race car is a hybred, I call it a TA race car
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:40 am

John, seeing your car burning the tires launching at the speedster reunion is what gave me the confidence that the model t rear axle is strong enough! My driving style is definitely more relaxed so I will be fine.
Last edited by David Mazza on Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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John Warren
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by John Warren » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:33 pm

Dave, you do remember that I broke down. I twisted off an axle. It was mostly because it was a bad axle. Please take lots of photos of your build and share. The big drum brakes work well, adding rocky mountains is a great move.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:40 pm

I think John got his PhD while building his! LOL!!!!!

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Luxford » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:03 am

There was a very well known T here n Australia which had a Model B motor in it at one stage.
This 1912 Australian bodied T was restored and then sold to one of our members after the restorer passed.
He used it for a number of years and it was featured on the cover of the Vintage Ford.

It was then sold to a person who owned a Brothel in Sydney who intended to use it to help promote his business. The girls found it difficult to start and drive so it was sent to a Antique car resorter who removed it's original "B" numbered motor (an thankfully kept it aside) The girls then drove it around the red light district for a few years.

The previous owner then brought it back and reinstated the original motor. A friend who was doing a speedster purchased the brass radiator which had been modified as the water pump shaft fouled the core and a section had been removed.

Very little else needed alteration or was damaged in the transplant., only the motor was altered, not sure about the brakes but as a vehicle it drove and accelerated really well. It was still deemed a alteration "too Far" and potentially unsafe to be left as it was.
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:52 am

John, Seems even with a stock model a engine your is pretty fast. I’m not concerned with going very fast but the added power will be nice, as with the extra gear in the trans. But for the most part I really love both cars the model t and the model a. I also love fenderless model t roadsters. The main goal is to build something that someone could have done back in the period, using only parts available then.

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by DanTreace » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:19 am

Saw this '27 sedan on tour years ago.

Asked the owner how it ran and he said good, but lots of work to many details, like A water pump hits the T radiator, so side pump added. Model A engine, and of course all Model A running gear. Model A front end with juice brakes, Model A rear with added Mitchell Overdrive, other wise pretty much T frame and stuff.


Model A clutch and brake, 3 speed shift, and overdrive lever too.
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Model A front axle
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Wishbone stock Model A to axle
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Model A rear with overdrive unit
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:46 pm

Our buddy Gary put this '27 body on an A chassis. He complained a lot about things that didn't fit. Duh!
GarysTA.jpg
I screened some shirts for the local guys and made him a celebrity.
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Sarikatime
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Sarikatime » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:33 pm

Sounds like a lot of fantastic advice from folks that have actually done it. Thank you.
Now Dennis wants to do the whole nine yards but he wants to keep the wood wheels. How can he accomplish putting back the wood spoke wheels onto the model A front and rear axles.? He doesn’t want to fool anyone but he likes the look of the wood wheels on a model T so it is more of a sentimental thing. Frank


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Rich Bingham » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:41 pm

How about putting a Model T engine in a Model A ?
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:46 pm

Here’s a little more of how I’ve begun putting a model a engine in a t. Yes I know it’s ridiculous, but it has been a fun project.
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:08 pm

Lazy slug that I am, I'd just buy a Model A.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Allan » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:13 pm

I bought my first model T in 1960 or thereabouts, with the intention of building a T bucket hotrod. I tinkered around with it, got it running and that killed the hotrod urge, thankfully.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Craig Leach » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:26 am

Hi Frank,
There is a guy here in Arizona that shows up at antique tractor shows with a 26 or 27 model T coupe with a V8 60 & model A drive train. His documention shows it was done by a relitive in the 1960s. At first glance you can hardly tell. There was a guy in Californa that was doing this model A swap 7 or 8 years ago for people, do not know anything more about him. I was trying to buy the T chassis from him for a speedster but he sold them as fast as he took the bodys off.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Burger in Spokane » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:52 am

Some things come to mind for me regarding a T vs. an A. One is the wood wheels.
To me, they are essential to the T look and feel. Another is the sound. Both T and A
engines have a distinct and unique sound. If I were to give up the T sound, I'd consider
the idea a lost cause and go a lot further than a 40hp A engine. To me, the charm of
a T is the look and sound. An A is a different critter.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by George House » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:04 am

Why deny a 40 HP engine to the Model A guys. Go for a Pinto engine. Nobody wants them....just sayin’
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:49 am

Both T and A engines have a distinct and unique sound.

I remember when Model A's were just twenty-year-old used cars, not antiques, and seeing them in traffic was not a special occasion. Even as a kiddo I noticed their unique sound. The T and the A are quite different cars, and if my circumstances drastically change and allow me to add an A to my "fleet" it will be a whole car so I can enjoy the whole Model A experience. But limitations of time, space, and money preclude that option, and I am happy to enjoy my pre-28 Fords.
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by John Illinois » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:24 am

There was a T sedan in the shop in Wallace Indiana that had an A motor. He also had air conditioning. It was very well engineered and looked almost factory. I am sure it had some type of overdrive . He and his wife toured all over with it. I do not remember running gear,he may have had disc brakes.

John


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:37 pm

More things to do to put a model a in a t chassis. This time the water neck needed to be adapted. A side mount model t water pump will be used with this set up. A v belt pulley will be used on the model t fan shaft and the pump will also have v belt.
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by John Codman » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:31 pm

My feeling is that if you are going to replace the T engine with something non-stock, then go for more then another 20 HP. I would suggest a Chrysler Hemi.

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Fordwright » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:32 pm

Sounds like fun, but I wouldn't do it. The Model T was what it was, and the Model A was what it was.

Model T sales had fallen to pathetic low levels by 1927, so the Model A was born. There was nothing revolutionary about it, but it hit a low price point that was popular in the early years of the depression. Later there was simply no market for inexpensive cars, so Ford focused on the customers who had money and were addicted to horsepower, so the affordable V-8 thus made its premature appearance in the auto market. Ford might have done better with a 6 cylinder motor, but his ego was so large at that time, that he was obsessed with the V8 as a way of humiliating GM. Henry Ford wanted to win back his dominant position in the auto market, but by the late 30s he was starting to lose his grasp on reality. Ford has held it's own over the years, but never won back the #1 position.

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by GrandpaFord » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:32 pm

I keep trying to find someone who will want to trade their A for my T. I have had lots of fun with my T and have enjoyed the experience but have always owned A's in the past and would like to get back into one. I don't have the cash or space for two antique cars or I would burden my heirs with both.


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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by David Mazza » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:09 pm

That nails one of the reasons for all this work. I love model t roadsters, lowered and fenderless. Some may call it a hot rod but whatever. All the parts of this car will be pre 1931. I also love model a fords. I can’t own both, I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter so one car needs to be exactly what I like. This model a engine will get a 6.5-1 Winfield head and dual zenith updrafts. Also a bigger cam. It will be about 65-70hp

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by TFan » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:52 pm

Did someone say Hemi this was my dream car when I was about 13 years old. And I do have one available. Jim
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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by John E. Guitar » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:40 pm

Peter, is that Centennial Park?

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Fordwright » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:15 pm

I took a ride in a cut-down hotrod once. It was fine until we got to about 70 mph, and I became preoccupied with what might happen when those big bouncy tires and the short wheelbase hit a bump in the pavement.

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Re: Model A motor into a T?

Post by Fordwright » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:18 pm

I can remember when neighbors used to stop and talk when they met on the road.
Here's a conversation that might have happened in 1928:
"How do you like your new Model A?"
"Not bad, but it's awful hard on gas."

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