Long Grain fabric installation

[radiatorman]

Seeking a sanity check on attaching long grain fabric to 26 Tudor wood roof frame. Don't want to do this twice.

1. Is it best to use a tack strip or just nail directly to frame and add hidem over it?
2. Fold fabric over it self to create double thickness with or without tack strip and cover with hidem?

Pictures:
1. Single layer of fabric.

2.Double layer by folding fabric over itself.

Long grain double (folded over) layer no tack strip.jpg (80.59 KiB) Viewed 3153 times

3. Hidem that's tacked over tacks holding fabric to frame.

Hidem strip.jpg (25.23 KiB) Viewed 3153 times

[Mark Gregush]

Stretch, tack, sealant along the edge then hidem welting. It would be hard to pull tight and tack with edge folded over. Nailed to frame, no added tack strip. Unless you have a heated space (mean on the hotter side) might not be the right time of year to do top fabric stretching. google Youtube on replacing top on vintage cars.

[Allan]

The binding shown is not what I know as hidem binding. The clue is in the name. Hidem binding has two rows of stitching either side of two raised ridges which carry a round plastic bead. These beads are lifted at installation, tacks driven between them, and then the relaxed beads hide the tacks. The binding shown would be installed with upholstery nails which are not hidden.
Someone may be able to shine a light on when hidem binding was first introduced, sometime in the 1920's I believe, so it may not be authentic on earlier cars.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[John kuehn]

When I installed the top material on my 24 Coupe I pretty much did what you stated in your no. 1 way to do it. Stretch the material to the edge of the wood and if need be lap it over a bit. Then take a sharp knife and evenly trim the material as necessary. Remember it’s OK to lap over the material. You can trim it nice and even later. The welting I used is what Allan mentioned. That’s hidem welt.
After you trimmed it then use the hide em welt and tack between the welt and let the welt close over where you tacked. It will make a nice seam after you get through.
That’s how I did my top. Others will have other recommendations how to do it. Maybe the newer T ‘s are done differently than the earlier closed cars.
Hope this helps.

[radiatorman]

Mark;
Thanks for the quick response. My garage is heated and the heat outlet blows directly on the roof area.
I read where I tack the sides by starting in the center and work my way forward ad backwards. I tried U-tube and only one came up and it had been removed.

Allan;
I have both versions and the one you noted did come with the top kit from Cartouche, the picture is what I got from Lang's.

26 Tudor.jpg (26.89 KiB) Viewed 3123 times

[John kuehn]

Radiatorman!
Have you installed the headliner in your car yet?
In my 24 I almost got ahead of myself and installed the top material BEFORE I installed the headliner!
In my car there is some headliner trim that goes in first before the the top can be put on.

You may can install the headliner in you car last but be sure you can put the inside trim in it if you do. You can repair any mistakes for the headliner much easier if the top material isn’t already installed!

Hope this helps!

[Humblej]

Long grain was not used during model T production, it is for model A as is the fold over "hidem" you have. Model T uses the short grain top material, hidem that opens in the middle, and rain gutters on the sides. Start with a layer of muslin, then a layer of cotton batting, then the top material. Start nailing tacks at the center front and center back working towards the sides.

[radiatorman]

The picture I shared isn't the latest since I have all the glass installed and the interior is complete with headliner and side panels.

This project was a frame off restoration and I value the support from people on the forum and their comments in helping me move forward in completing this activity. The value of speaking with others regarding model T's is great. During the 100 year anniversary in Richmond, IN. a gentleman ask if I had taken the rear end apart, I replied it appears to be ok. Boy was I wrong, there was no bearing only spacers and the ring gear was missing some teeth and the key way in one axle was broken. It's been a can of worms at times, but it's been good working on something that belonged to my dad.

As we approach the Holiday Season I wish everyone a safe and healthy Holiday.

[Dropacent]

Dwight, the binding you show in the first post is called “ wire-on”. After tacking or stapling in place, it is folded over, showing a nice finished black strip.
I believe it’s later than model T production, but I’ve been away from upholstery and top work for a long time. Pretty sure it’s more of a 19030s and beyond product.
There are two different styles of long grain fabric. One I’ve seen is kind of cheesy. I get my stuff from Miami Rubber in cinci.it is very high quality. I’d stay away from the stuff with a fuzzy nap backing. They did only sell to professionals , but that could have changed in the last many years. I cannot speak to whether ford used the long grain, but owning aftermarket T bodied vehicles forever, a couple very original , it was used very early on ( mid 1920s ) by others FWIW

[Dropacent]

I’m guessing anyone can buy from them now.

[david_dewey]

Well, my '26 Tudor rain gutter covers will fit over the ends of fold-over welt, but not Hide-em welt. Fold over also provides a more water-proof welt, as you install it with the small bead at the bottom, so water just flows over it.
I've not heard when fold-over came into use, that would be interesting to check out. Just because we see tops with hide-em nowadays doesn't mean that was what was used originally.

[John iaccino]

Long grain Cobra has been around since the early to mid 20's and was used on closed car tops. Short grain Cobra was used on open car tops. I learned this from my father who was the trimmer for Holbrook bodies from mid 20's till they folded due to the depression.

[Dropacent]

John, would you concur that the wire-on is a bit later than model T product? An important note if anyone does use wire-on. Be careful to install so the flap is formed DOWN after install. DOWN AFTER INSTALL ! Sealer applied underneath, also. Personally, I’d use sealer under the wire-on and also under the flap before bending down. If not installed correctly, it will be a great rain catcher. I’ve seen it installed upside down once or twice. Also, the joint should be center rear OR on each rear corner. They make a small metal cover to cover the joint that gets nailed on.
For the non purist, it does look nice to finish a top off.

[John iaccino]

Tim, you are correct, wire-on didn't come out until the early to mid '30's. Hidem was even used on the Model A Ford.

[George Mills]

Dwight,

Just a personal ‘trick’ whether I am doing a closed car, or an open one on bows.

I only sink the tacks in halfway until I’m happy with the fit and draw...then once assured I don’t have a pucker...or need just a wee bit more tug by pulling a few tacks for the stretch needed...only then hammer home all the tacks!

[John iaccino]

Dwight,

Just a personal ‘trick’ whether I am doing a closed car, or an open one on bows.

I only sink the tacks in halfway until I’m happy with the fit and draw...then once assured I don’t have a pucker...or need just a wee bit more tug by pulling a few tacks for the stretch needed...only then hammer home all the tacks!

X2